FLASH: India M-MRCA Official Shortlist

**ArtyEngineer** · 10 May 11,, 06:32

Originally Posted by Stitch

I am disappointed that the IAF did not pick the F-18E/F/G, especially with the warming relations between the US Gov't and the Indian gov't; I think that, overall, it was the most qualified contender. I see the Typhoon winning this procurement process, and the Indians being disappointed in the ToT and the product support (or, rather, lack thereof).

Stitch,

Does EADS have a bad rep for "In Service Support"? I suspect BAE will take the lead on any such venture in India. The support to the Saudi Typhoons is recieving very positive feed back....or at least teh BAE Corporate Newspaper would have me believe

. Seriously though, and this isnt me just "Defending my parent organisation", we take in service support very seriously, we have to in the current trend for Performance Based Logistics contracts.

If the bolded comment was more aimed at ToT, then again I have to say that I think India may recieve more from a non US supplier. Now the US can share alot of stuff, its just the the "Processes" that have to be followed are truelly mind boggling, I have personally dealt with it dealing with Austrailia, and been on the sideline of our India dealings with my piece of equipment. I cant describe how "Not Fun" it was!!!!

Regards

Arty

**ambidex** · 10 May 11,, 06:58

Originally Posted by gunnut

Yeah but it's still French...

French say, 'They do not bribe that is why they are not able to sell it to anyone yet'

.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10 May 11,, 07:13

A French turkey going up against Russian PAK-FA and the Chinese J-20.

**Skywatcher** · 10 May 11,, 07:22

Originally Posted by ArtyEngineer

Stitch,

Does EADS have a bad rep for "In Service Support"? I suspect BAE will take the lead on any such venture in India. The support to the Saudi Typhoons is recieving very positive feed back....or at least teh BAE Corporate Newspaper would have me believe

. Seriously though, and this isnt me just "Defending my parent organisation", we take in service support very seriously, we have to in the current trend for Performance Based Logistics contracts.

If the bolded comment was more aimed at ToT, then again I have to say that I think India may recieve more from a non US supplier. Now the US can share alot of stuff, its just the the "Processes" that have to be followed are truelly mind boggling, I have personally dealt with it dealing with Austrailia, and been on the sideline of our India dealings with my piece of equipment. I cant describe how "Not Fun" it was!!!!

Regards

Arty

Isn't the Eurofighter consortium promising to make India a full partner? They could have convinced New Delhi and HAL that there's a lot of profit to go their route.

**Blademaster** · 10 May 11,, 14:18

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

A French turkey going up against Russian PAK-FA and the Chinese J-20.

The Rafale came out way before the PAK-FA was even on the drawing board and even operationalized before. Besides, judging from the performance of J-20, Rafale has better performance. Besides Rafale was not intended for the role envisaged by PAK-FA and J-20. Rafale is network centric, multi-role plane with ease of operability and maintenance.

**Blademaster** · 10 May 11,, 14:20

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

That is NOT a plan B. Once your assets are in the air, the other side already knows your game plan.

That argument can be applied to the US Airforce, RAF, and the French air force.

**Skywatcher** · 10 May 11,, 16:05

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Besides, judging from the performance of J-20, Rafale has better performance.

Huh?

**Blademaster** · 10 May 11,, 16:15

Originally Posted by Skywatcher

Huh?

I saw the first videos of the J-20s. It seems to me to be a slow and slumbering beast, hardly indicating agility. The engine also seemed to be underpowered for this kind of plane.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10 May 11,, 16:20

Originally Posted by Blademaster

That argument can be applied to the US Airforce, RAF, and the French air force.

Unfortunately, knowing that making you blind and deaf is part of their game plan is not going to help you.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10 May 11,, 16:22

Originally Posted by Blademaster

I saw the first videos of the J-20s. It seems to me to be a slow and slumbering beast, hardly indicating agility. The engine also seemed to be underpowered for this kind of plane.

At this point, it is not a production plane. It has yet to go through the flights the PAK-FA publicly demonstrated. It's a wait and see game at the moment. One thing for sure, this is nothing like the J-10 program which saw regt service long before revealling to the public.

**Blademaster** · 10 May 11,, 16:34

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Unfortunately, knowing that making you blind and deaf is part of their game plan is not going to help you.

I don't see PAF or the PLAAF having the capability of making IAF blind and deaf. Besides, if IAF's modernization plan is implemented by time PAK-FA reaches operational status which is around 2018-2020, the RAF and the French Air Force won't be able to make IAF blind and deaf. USAF may. But a conflict with USAF is not foreseeable. If it was, you would see IAF go crazy arming itself with the latest gizmos.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10 May 11,, 19:20

Originally Posted by Blademaster

I don't see PAF or the PLAAF having the capability of making IAF blind and deaf.

Just frustrated. So many targets. So few bombs.

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Besides, if IAF's modernization plan is implemented by time PAK-FA reaches operational status which is around 2018-2020,

The F-35 is due on scene before then.

Originally Posted by Blademaster

the RAF and the French Air Force won't be able to make IAF blind and deaf. USAF may.

Libya showed that the ALA and the RAF would not fight without US support.

Originally Posted by Blademaster

But a conflict with USAF is not foreseeable. If it was, you would see IAF go crazy arming itself with the latest gizmos.

You can't buy what you don't know.

**merlin2** · 10 May 11,, 19:25

Originally Posted by proud2bindian

Well the old design of the f-18,hassle manner of TOT,CISMOS problem has got f-18 in problem and i see the EF Typhoon winning from here for sure.

The old design of F-18 has nothing to do with Super Hornet which is a 4.5 gen fighter and more capable than all the other competitors.The Super Hornet is essentially an all-new aircraft, with similar virtually all that the Super Hornet has in common with earlier F/A-18's is the forward fuselage.
It has the best radar in the world ,the APG-79 ,the best a2g capability and also an awesome a2a capability with 14 missiles under its wings , including JHMCS and AIM-9X's .

CISMOA was the main reason why India didn't buy it.

**Blademaster** · 10 May 11,, 19:27

Originally Posted by merlin2

The old design of F-18 has nothing to do with Super Hornet which is a 4.5 gen fighter and more capable than all the other competitors.The Super Hornet is essentially an all-new aircraft, with similar virtually all that the Super Hornet has in common with earlier F/A-18's is the forward fuselage.
It has the best radar in the world ,the APG-79 ,the best a2g capability and also an awesome a2a capability with 14 missiles under its wings , including JHMCS and AIM-9X's .

CISMOA was the main reason why India didn't buy it.

Also, USA did not offer the full capability of APG-79. They offered a downgraded version which IAF was not willing to accept.

**merlin2** · 11 May 11,, 09:15

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Also, USA did not offer the full capability of APG-79. They offered a downgraded version which IAF was not willing to accept.

Absolutely..In the US ,full transfer of sensitive technology requires congressional approval which means FORGET IT ! especially in those areas in which the US enjoys a comfortable lead vis-a-vis the rest of the world and the APG-79 AESA radar is one of these. Its leaps and bounds more advance than what RAFALE is going to have in 2012 ! Both countries ,INDIA and the US have lost a great opportunity here..