Air Defense System - Patriot Missile vs S300

**Enzo Ferrari** · 25 May 05,, 05:12

I've read from a Chinese magazine that the Russian S300 systems are "more advanced" than American Patriot system, is that true?

Discuss.

Sorry if somebody else already post similar topic(s).

**Franco Lolan** · 25 May 05,, 05:16

Great thread. I'm interested. I'm favoring the S-300 or newer versions such as 450. I have finals tommorow but if someone can start posting it would be great.

**Enzo Ferrari** · 25 May 05,, 05:40

Originally Posted by Franco Lolan

Great thread. I'm interested. I'm favoring the S-300 or newer versions such as 450. I have finals tommorow but if someone can start posting it would be great.

American one is the first and only tactical missile "kills" air defense system (despite the low killing rate), and judge from the traditions of the exaggeration from Russian weapon brochures......

http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/patriot.html

**~~vishv29~~** · 27 May 05,, 10:05

Originally Posted by Enzo Ferrari

I've read from a Chinese magazine that the Russian S300 systems are "more advanced" than American Patriot system, is that true?

Discuss.

Sorry if somebody else already post similar topic(s).

amercans r more advanced in electronic warfare systems but russians r always superior in rocketry systems. true...s-300 is anytime superior to patriots.we saw in gulf war how accurate pac system was.

**Sandman** · 13 Jul 05,, 14:44

Numbers on the Russian missile are advertised as the best over the Patriot. How does the range/speed of the PAC-2 compare to the S-400?

**Bill** · 14 Jul 05,, 10:04

The PAC-2 system hit everything it was fired at during ODS.

Including our own planes.

S-400: Mach 6.2, range believed to be at least 200 miles
PAC-2: Mach 5+, range approx 90 miles
USN SM-3: Mach 8+, range approx 160 nautical miles

**Bill** · 14 Jul 05,, 10:06

"amercans r more advanced in electronic warfare systems but russians r always superior in rocketry systems."

What russian AAM has the speed or range of the 20+ yo Phoenix AAM?

Answer: None

What Russian SAM has the speed of the SM-3?

Answer: None.

**indianguy4u** · 14 Jul 05,, 13:12

What about Israeli Arrows?

**hello** · 14 Jul 05,, 13:44

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

"amercans r more advanced in electronic warfare systems but russians r always superior in rocketry systems."

What russian AAM has the speed or range of the 20+ yo Phoenix AAM?

Answer: None

What Russian SAM has the speed of the SM-3?

Answer: None.

The phoenix has actually never killed directly. It's only "kill" was when its speed made the target Mig25's pilot force it over the top and had to eventually ditch it.

**Child of War** · 15 Jul 05,, 06:23

Yes S-300 PMU2 favorit is better than any American air defense system. S-400 Triumf is a beast with no one even close to it. Air Defense is one field where Russians really have an edge over Americans.

**Bill** · 15 Jul 05,, 06:30

"The phoenix has actually never killed directly. It's only "kill" was when its speed made the target Mig25's pilot force it over the top and had to eventually ditch it."

Not true.

The Iranians shot down numerous aircraft during the Iran Iraq war with AIM-54s. It was well into the twenties.

**Jay** · 15 Jul 05,, 16:08

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The PAC-2 system hit everything it was fired at during ODS.
Including our own planes.

They didnt have IFF like stuff in them missiles, yet?? I guess all the missiles/smar bombs/Cruise missiles have to be equipped with some sort of IFF to reduce friendly fires.

**Sandman** · 17 Jul 05,, 07:18

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The PAC-2 system hit everything it was fired at during ODS.

Including our own planes.

S-400: Mach 6.2, range believed to be at least 200 miles
PAC-2: Mach 5+, range approx 90 miles
USN SM-3: Mach 8+, range approx 160 nautical miles

This is what I was thinking from the info on the PAC-1 info published, and the fact that the Patriot was to ultimately replace the capability of Nike Herculese as a high altitude long range SAM. Another interesting question is if the US has plans, particularly after the announced withdrawal from the ABM treaty, to be able to data link the Patriots and Thaads and AEGIS cruisers and their SM-3s to a "battle management" and "break out" an ABM defense of the US in case things ever got ugly with Russia or China (more likely China and a crisis with Taiwan).
At one time in the 1960s we had close to 10,000 Nike Herculese SAMS many with nuclear warheads around our cities and major bases. Ed Thaelen(http://ed-thelen.org/) has a website talking about his service with the "circles of supersonic steal". Could we re-erect a SAM/ABM defense of our country quickly?

**leib10** · 17 Jul 05,, 07:50

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

"The phoenix has actually never killed directly. It's only "kill" was when its speed made the target Mig25's pilot force it over the top and had to eventually ditch it."

Not true.

The Iranians shot down numerous aircraft during the Iran Iraq war with AIM-54s. It was well into the twenties.

So what's the beef about the Phoenix being a worthless, expensive and cumbersome POS? A theory for the lack of Phoenix kills in ODS was because Iraqi MiG pilots would recognize the powerful AWG-9 emissions and try to get away from it and bump into other coalition aircraft while attempting to escape.

As for Russian weapons, the experimental or lesser-known ones always have inflated capabilities.

**Bill** · 17 Jul 05,, 16:01

The F-14 earned a reputation as 'mig repellant' during ODS because as soon as the Iraqis detected emmisions from the AWG-9/APG-71 radar they'd turn tail and run like hell.