SuperFlanker

Isnt the standard MiG-21bis also bvr capable?

indianguy4u

As far as my knowledge 125 mig21s where ungraded to bison std which inclded unpgraded avionics, & AAM like R77 & even astra AAM. Maybe a better knowledgable person can guide in this matter.

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tphuang

interesting, I read something on PDF about what they actually changed, can't remember now. Seemed to be a lot of propoganda.

lemontree

I will not say he chickened out, but he would have got quite anxious since he did not have the means to retaliate at those far off ranges.
That is exactly what the PAF did. Which also indicates that the absence of BVR capability made them put them at risk.
The Mig-21 Bison has the Phazatron Koypo/Super Koypo multirole radars.
Koypo range - 57 km
Super Koypo - 80 km
These radars can track 8 targets simultanously and target 2 at one time.
It uses the Tarang (indeginous) RWR.
Useless question till the PAF starts its upgrade as promised by the US in Dec 2005. You should ask how long will it take for a Bison to chase down a PAF F-16 and shot it down.
You mean to say that IAF cannot handle BVR?

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Cheers!...on the rocks!!

Jay

Money we spend on training and multi-national exercises are a big waste then

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A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

tphuang

not saying that IAF cannot handle BVR, but in order to use BVR, you have to be able to identify opposing planes from BVR. Those range that you gave, who knows what kind RCS numbers those are against. At the same time, you have to be able to track your AAM once you shoot it. a real fourth generation plane like su-30mki could easily identify something from far out and has the necessary hardware to easily guide the AAMs, but what about bisons?

And F-16 would take down a bison in a dogfight.

indianguy4u

A BVR capable AC will use its advantage. Dont u think so. Also If AAM is present in the fighter than its not for show. It can kill .

tphuang

yeah, definitely, I'm not doubting that it's great to have BVR. Bisons upgrade will be great against planes like F-7s and other non-F-16 planes in PAF.

indianguy4u

Why are u not trying to understand that non BVR f16s in PAF inventory are sitting ducks to BVR capable mig21 bisons of IAF.

Still if u dont understand it, fine.

SuperFlanker

If its on the PDF...its defiently false. Also, why are you trying to act Chinese? You are clearly another Pakistani who does not wnat to admit where he is from.

indianguy4u

Give him a chance to prove otherwise.

tphuang

are you talking to me? I'm a Canadian of Chinese background.

Sameer

Guys he is not Pakistani he is a Canadian of Chinese background and a respectable mmber.

Sameer

Noi only the Bison upgrade offers that capability because a radar named Kopyo which is BVR capable was able to be fitted into the small nose of the MiG-21.


There are Israeli upgrades to the MiG-21 family that offer BVR as well.


The Bis is simply a late iG-21 ie it is one of the most update Fishbeds in terms of aerodynamics.



Of course it would shoot down an F-16 easily if it does not have BVR to counter the BISON.


But keep in mind that in a dog fight the Bison would have a problem although the helmet mounted sight is a great match winner and should be able to deal with post PAF threats at close range (heat seeking missiles cued upto 45 degrees off boresight).

Something interesting that many people do not know, if the Bis was unupgraded then it would be at a severe disadvantage compared to the F-7PG (a MiG-21 clone) because the PG is an even later Chinese modification of the Fishbed series wherein they made it slightly more manouverable.

lemontree

Only if both planes use guns against each other. It would be a 50/50 chance depending on the skill of the opposing pilots. Both PAF and IAF are excellent dog fighters.
But if WVR missiles are used then the BISON has an edge, see below as explained by Sameer.