COIN aircraft

**Chogy** · 30 Jan 11,, 14:12

With the renewed emphasis on COIN, Air Tractor has taken their venerable Agriculture aircraft (the Air Tractor) and produced a COIN variant which flew at the Paris Air Show, and which is undergoing trials by (I believe) the UAE or one of the other Persian Gulf States.

Air Tractor At-802u Brochure

I am not impressed, primarily due to two things...

1) Terrible cockpit visibility. A true COIN aircraft needs to double as an observation craft, and these thick cockpit bars leave me cold in this regard.

2) Tail-dragger configuration. Pilots today are trained on tricycle gear. Conventional gear requires significant work to master, and is more prone to landing accidents, especially with any sort of cross-wind.

This new airplane was also preceeded by the short-lived Piper Enforcer.

But I would maintain that a superb COIN aircraft was already in the U.S. inventory, the Rockwell OV-10 Bronco.

This airplane has everything a COIN aircraft needs, with the possible exception of a more heavily armored cockpit area. It served with distinction in Vietnam, as did the A-1 Skyraider. In other words, we have already mastered COIN aircraft, and if such is needed, we already know what works.

There are examples from other countries that would do the job better as well, such as the Pucara.

What attributes are needed for COIN? Do these have a role in the current WOT? Or are these relics, to be replaced by drones in the future?

**~~denizkuvetleri~~** · 30 Jan 11,, 14:34

There are currently two new aircraft being developed specifically as a counter-insurgency aircraft. The A-67 Dragon is being developed by US company US Aircraft Corporation. The Hurkus is being developed by Turkish Aerospace giant Turkish Aerospace Industries A.S. Both aircraft are scheduled to be launced late this year (2011).

A-67 Dragon (USA)

The US Aircraft A-67 Dragon is a single-engine, propeller-driven, ground attack aircraft. It is designed for counter-insurgency (COIN), close air support (CAS), and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions. The A-67 is a low cost aircraft built for low intensity conflict situations.

Specifications (A-67 prototype)
Data from US Aircraft Corporation

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: ()
Wingspan: 38 ft (11.6 m)
Height: ()
Wing area: 211 ft² (19.6 m²)
Empty weight: 4,800 lb (2,200 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 10,200 lb (4,640 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney PT6A-68/3 turboprop, 1,250 shp ()
Performance

Maximum speed: 371 knots (427 mph, 687 km/h) at 20,000 ft
Range: 1,880 mi (3,008 km)
Service ceiling: 35,000 ft (11,000 m)
Rate of climb: 4,882 ft/min (1,488 m/min)
Wing loading: 35.1 lb/sq ft ()

_____________

TAI HURKUS

The TAI Hürkuş is a tandem two-seat, low wing, single engine, turboprop aircraft being developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) as a new basic trainer and ground attack aircraft (COIN) for the Turkish Armed Forces.

The TAI Hürkuş Development Program started with an agreement signed between Turkish Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (Savunma Sanayii Mustesarligi (SSM)) and TAI in March 2006. Under the agreement the company will design, manufacture and complete the civil certification the aircraft to EASA CS 23 standards.

The Hürkuş will be equipped for day and night flying as well as basic pilot training, instrument flying, navigation training, weapons and formation training. The aircraft will have cabin pressurization, ejection seats and an on-board oxygen generation system (OBOGS). Microtecnica of Turin, Italy has been selected to provide the aircraft's environmental control system.

In 2007 it was forecast that the first prototype would fly in late-2009 with first delivery, upon completion of the certification process, forecast for 2011. The date for first flight has now been delayed until mid-2011. The Turkish government has indicated that the aircraft is also expected to attract export sales.

The Hurkus will feature a full glass cockpit with ASELSAN of Turkey MFD's.

The TAI Hurkus is currently being integrated with the UMTAS (Anti-tank), OMTAS (Anti-tank) and Cirit (Anti-armour) missiles produced by Turkey's ROKETSAN.

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS:

Cruise Speed …………………… > 250 kts

G Limits ………………..…….. +7g / -3.5 g

Climb ……………………..15000 ft in 5 min

Seating configuration ….. Stepped tandem

Pressurization…………………………. Yes

Anti-G system…………………………. Yes

OBOGS ………………………….…….. Yes

0/0 Ejection seat ………………….……Yes

Avionics ………………………..... All digital

**Chogy** · 30 Jan 11,, 18:41

Good stuff. There are a large number of single-engined turboprop aircraft similar to the Tucano, Pilatus, and T-6 Texan II, that would all do fine, but I wonder about the survivability of them compared to a twin. SARCAP, artillery spotting, and other duties not necessarily of a ground attack role, tend to really expose these aircraft to everything from small arms fire to MANPADs. Like the water-cooled piston engines from WW2 such as the Mustang and Spitfire, all it takes is a single small-arms round into critical engine components to bring it down.

Twins like the Bronco and the Pucara have the wing area, engine redundancy, thust+lift to enable additional armor and payload. While more expensive to operate, I believe the advantages outweigh the shortcomings. With the engines to each side, you have centerline stations available for heavier armament without propeller synch issues.

For weapons, you obviously have smaller gravity bombs, FF rockets, and machine guns, as well as lighter smart weapons like hellfire. There is no reason JDAM or similar couldn't be retrofitted to very small gravity bombs, and an advanced avionics suite might allow ground troops to datalink GPS coords directly to the aircraft.

On that note, does the U.S. Army have a device like a laser rangefinding system that outputs GPS coordinates of a lased target? That would be ideal.

A true cannon is possible, but heavy. An excellent weapon (IMO) would be a minigun in .50 BMG; gives it adequate punch and AP/API options. A high ROF combined with a large ammo supply would turn it into a miniature A-10, capable of dealing with personnel and thin-skinned vehicles.

**cr9527** · 30 Jan 11,, 19:41

Aren't gunships better for COIN?

They have far better sights and situational awareness, allows for far better firing solution, and has far more time to acquire targets

**ArtyEngineer** · 30 Jan 11,, 20:49

Originally Posted by Chogy

On that note, does the U.S. Army have a device like a laser rangefinding system that outputs GPS coordinates of a lased target? That would be ideal.

The most certainly do. The equipment keeps getting smaller, lighter and more accurate.

See attached:

2580_GonioLight_flyer_EN.pdf

Regards

Arty

S2 · 31 Jan 11,, 00:29

So it'll self locate, measure azimuth, distance and vertical angle, calculate the grid location of the observed target and transmit the data digitally?

Does the system require periodic re-orientation of the gyroscope over a known survey point?

PADS (Position Azimuth Determining System) required initial and periodic re-orientation every 20 km IIRC. Don't know what they used after that but I presume GPS rendered all that obsolete (until somebody shoots down our GPS satelliates or interferes with the GPS transmission downlink). G/VLLD (ground located laser designator) gave a distance and vertical angle to target but I can't recall if it computed an azimuth. Easy enough if you've a known direction from the O.P.

**ArtyEngineer** · 31 Jan 11,, 02:28

Originally Posted by S-2

So it'll self locate, measure azimuth, distance and vertical angle, calculate the grid location of the observed target and transmit the data digitally?

Yes to all

, its a very nice piece of equipment.

Originally Posted by S-2

Does the system require periodic re-orientation of the gyroscope over a known survey point?

This a real hard question to answer succintly and within whats able to be discussed in an open forum lol!!! Will the answer "It Depends" suffice?

Originally Posted by S-2

PADS (Position Azimuth Determining System) required initial and periodic re-orientation every 20 km IIRC. Don't know what they used after that but I presume GPS rendered all that obsolete (until somebody shoots down our GPS satelliates or interferes with the GPS transmission downlink). G/VLLD (ground located laser designator) gave a distance and vertical angle to target but I can't recall if it computed an azimuth. Easy enough if you've a known direction from the O.P.

Yeah, Pads did require the system to stop every 20Km or less as it was a purely "Inertial" system which while moving "Position Errors" which in turn drive "Azimuth Errors" would increase. When these errors reached a certain threshold the system would ask to stop and do what is know as a ZUPT (Zero Velocity Update) which is where the system stops, senses the rotation of the earth again, back proceesses its stored movement data, compares all to its inbuilt (Earth Gravity Model) and when its happy it knows where it is and where north is again will tell the operator ok to move again. The addition of continuous GPS updates (Known as GPS Aiding) drastically decreases the frequecy of these ZUPTS (as in the case of IPADS, I for Improved) however the system still will continuously compare what it is getting from the Inertial and GPS and when a divergence of a certain magnitude occures will still ask for a ZUPT.

Hope this explains a bit, and apologies to those Aircraft enthusiasts who had no desire to read or know about this stuff in a thread for COIN Aircraft!!!!

Regards

Arty

**~~Porsche917LH~~** · 31 Jan 11,, 04:22

It will indeed live up to it's name in combat: By ploughing into the ground.

Speaking of which, in another update in fantasy plane mercenary land (since we are getting somewhat off topic), I found this. Wouldn't be hard to replicate with RPG's.

IMO the best COIN plane is a Tucano. If not either try to basically replicate the sandy or use a 172 and get some titanium ball implants.

**Chogy** · 31 Jan 11,, 16:30

Survivability obviously depends upon the conflict intensity. Combatting drug lords or guerillas armed with shotguns and machetes, no problems. Fighting a force with heavy MG's, 23mm cannon, or worse, MANPADs, and I'm thinking you need to up the ante with twin redundancy and armor. Or send in the A-10's.

Slapping guns on a Cessna is a band-aid. I knew a man who flew Bird Dog's in Vietnam, and their weapons were M-16's out the window, and my favorite, a grenade with the pin pulled and inserted in a glass jar. It made them feel better, but they were still sitting ducks and took terrible casualties.

**astralis** · 31 Jan 11,, 17:26

Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that should work for most things.

for harder COIN targets-- A-10s, and AC-130s.

one thing i'm surprised at is that the USAF has not committed itself to getting a newly designed from ground-up, dedicated CAS/COIN type aircraft. A-10 is good but they keep on stretching out that service life...:(

**Jimmy** · 01 Feb 11,, 01:31

The AF's primary mission isn't COIN or even COIN support. And the money for that airplane would come from the same pot the AF wants to use for fighters, bombers, and nukes.