So what are the chances of an F-22B with JSF technology for low maintenance LO, inlet design, engines, sensors, or aviaonics?
Could Chinese threat restore F-22 here?
Could Chinese threat restore F-22 here? | Puget Sound Business Journal
Observers may argue whether the recent first flight of China’s J-20 prototype stealth fighter means any imminent threat to U.S. air superiority.
But the new evidence of Chinese military aerospace prowess does raise the possibility of a future decision to resume building the U.S. top-of-the-line fighter, the F-22 Raptor, which is nearly at the end of its planned production run.
A number of pundits and press reports have recently weighed whether the U.S. will need more F-22s to counter the Chinese fighter if the latter actually evolves into a competitive aircraft and enters production.
Focusing on the possible Chinese threat will “inexorably lead to the conclusion that our Air Force needs to have more F-22s -- the only plane optimized for dealing with the kind of air power China seems to be pursuing,” said Loren Thompson, analyst for the Washington, D.C.-based Lexington Institute, in a Jan. 13 piece.
Building more F-22s could be a good thing for the Puget Sound region, where currently about 1,000 Boeing workers are engaged in building the last F-22 composite wings and fuselage aft end, for delivery in June. While Lockheed Martin Corp. assembles the final aircraft, Boeing builds about one-third of the mostly composite airframe.
With its twin engines and ability to cruise at supersonic speeds, the F-22 is a substantially more powerful aircraft than the troubled but cheaper single-engine F-35, which is currently to become the dominant U.S. fighter.
Lockheed Martin also builds the F-35, after defeating a Boeing proposal in 2001 after a hotly fought competition.
The Chinese J-20 is certainly styled to look like the F-22 and therefore may be intended to be a competitor, which could mean a future production model of the Chinese plane would be superior to the F-35.
To be sure, right now it seems unlikely that Defense Secretary Robert Gates will re-start production of the expensive F-22 after having decided to limit the fleet to 195 aircraft, about half the original fleet. The last F-22 is currently to be delivered in 2012.
But Gates is planning to step down from his position this year, and the perception of a growing Chinese threat could change the political will.
With these possibilities in mind, the Air Force already has arranged for Lockheed Martin and Boeing to store 30,000 “major pieces” of the tooling and molds for the aircraft, at the Sierra Army Depot in California, said Lockheed Martin spokesman Chris McGee.
“The F-22 production line could be restarted after production ends, if necessary, but there would be a time gap involved, depending on when such a request were received,” said a statement from Lockheed Martin released by McGee.
If Lockheed Martin did restart production, there’s no telling what role Boeing might have.
An issue is that composites developmental work is displacing the remaining F-22 production in the legendary 9-101 building, also known as the Boeing Development Center, across from Seattle’s Museum of flight.
A “substantial portion” of the F-22 production floor space already has transitioned to Boeing Commercial Airplanes' new “Advanced Developmental Composites” organization, formed to advance Boeing's use of composite technologies.
“Additional floor space will be made available for BCA as (F-22) production completes in mid-2011,” said Boeing spokesman Paul Guse, in an email.
So if a Chinese threat spurs resumption of F-22 production, and if Boeing has a similar role, that program would have to find new floor space if it were to remain in the Puget Sound area
Read more: Could Chinese threat restore F-22 here? | Puget Sound Business Journal
"Yeah. See, we plan ahead, that way we don't do anything right now. Earl explained it to me." - Tremors, 1990
So what are the chances of an F-22B with JSF technology for low maintenance LO, inlet design, engines, sensors, or aviaonics?
So...like a new airplane?
They have SSNs and SSBNs too, so why not bring back the Seawolf (modernised of course)....
cheers
Like a Super Hornet. Isn't the avionics upgrade already planned? I wonder what it would take to redesign the F-22 to use F-35 LO materials and coatings. The diverterless inlets might lower maintenance costs but I no idea if those would work in F-22 flight regimes. Same with the engines, etc.
How much was done to the B-1 when that program was revived by Reagan?
Not happening the budget climate doesn't allow it, with the jsf in its current state we'll toss money at that over a revived f-22 if this decision was to be made it would have been done 2 years ago. Essentially what will end up happening is that in one form or another the F-35 will be finished at huge cost in the next couple of years and to bring it close to cost projections for allies with orders in place, the US will subsidize either the purchase or lockmart to cover the development overruns.
AFAIK, the main changes between the B-1A and the B-1B involved the intake ducting, and the application of LO material along the leading edges of the fuselage (just in front of the wings); the B-1A was originally designed with the ability of supersonic flight at altitude. With the advances in AAM's between the '70's and the '80's, the supersonic flight capability was deleted from the B-1B program in the interests of design simplification (cost) and increased stealthiness of the engine intake ducting. Instead of supersonic, medium-altitude penetration of enemy airspace, as envisioned with the B-1A, the B-1B flight profile was changed to a high-subsonic, low-level approach. The intakes were changed from a variable-inlet design with supersonic capability, to a more convoluted and bifurcated inlet design to "hide" the compressor faces from hostile radar. I'm sure the avionics were vastly improved, also, but I don't know too much about that.
"Yeah. See, we plan ahead, that way we don't do anything right now. Earl explained it to me." - Tremors, 1990
They seem pretty happy with the Virginia. Just uped the production rate.They have SSNs and SSBNs too, so why not bring back the Seawolf (modernised of course)....
Last edited by citanon; 20 Jan 11, at 18:59.
There is virtually no chance the F-22A's production line will be re-opened. Only 'if' Secretary of Defense Gates does indeed steps down. That would be the only way President Obama could reverse his decision to close down the production of the F-22A without 'too much egg' on his face. I can't help but, wonder if the US intelligence community was behind on information on the Sukhoi T-50 and J20 or, if with holding the information was part of someone's agenda?
I mean after the USAF has gone on record stating the F-22 will not have any competition for seven to ten years at the earliest. Now, we find that guesstimate was really incorrect!
There was enough budget pressure to end the F-22 program, bringing it back as it was would bring all the critics out of the woodwork. To make major design changes would be walking the same path of the F-35.
At least when President Reagan brought back the B-1 program, he had a tense Cold War as a reason to do so. President Obama does not have that excuse to bring back the F-22 program, all he could do is to roll over on Robert Gates.
My suggestion would be to cancel the USS Zumwalt destroyer and modify the LCS program. Those two would free a lot of money.
I do, for there is real urgency and priority for the Russian AF and the PLAAF, to have a competitor to the F-22A, and, their programs are well funded. They have only been working on their fighters for only ten years. Until the year 2000, they collected intelligence on the F-22, F-35, Typhoon and, the Rafale programs, so a lot of R&D was done for them!
Remember, the F-22 was originally scheduled to become operational fifteen years after the ATF program started, in 1981. So that meant the F-22 was going to be operational early in President Clinton's second term. It was the end of the Cold War that caused the Pentagon to order LM and sub-contractors to slow-down in the F-22's program by at least seven years and to adjust the price based upon the production run to be cut at least in half!!
If it takes longer than six more years for the J-20 and T-50 to become operational, that would translate into the F-22A being operational without a competitor for a longer period than the F-15A did!! Remember how long the F-15 ruled the skies? That would be the most tragic situation from the PLAAF or Russian AF's perspective. They don't intend for that to happen.
You really, really need to separate speculative theory from fact.
Your post assumed that:
a) The F-22 line is closed because of Gates, and that anyone other than Gates would reverse the decision.
b) That the successor to Gates would ignore the same information, that Gates has at his disposal, because that information would not be compelling enough to uphold his decision.
Procurement decisions are made on a lot of factors other than just a rudimentary observation.
So you assuming, without any knowledge of either the T-50 or J-20, that they are competition to the F-22. I hate to point out the obvious, But they are in the comparitive YF-22/23 stages - and that was 20 years ago, even if they do have a good understanding of stealth tech. Which to use an anology, is like producing the shell of a modern day car with 1960's die's, corrosion protection of 1960's treatment methods, and trying to make the engine run on unleaded with an Atari chip. Chinese are smart, but you don't give the auto dealer the benefit of a sales pitch when buying a $80,000 pickup truck.I mean after the USAF has gone on record stating the F-22 will not have any competition for seven to ten years at the earliest. Now, we find that guesstimate was really incorrect!
Ego Numquam
On this one, I do think there are a lot of people who would've come to a different conclusion than Gates. Do I think anyone will reopen the line? Barring a serious downturn in diplomacy, no. The cost of reopening the line would be staggering to even the strongest supporters.
For the sake of jobs in America, something your President talks about even when on tour of other nations, why not open the production based only on external orders, Japan, Australia, South Korea, Israel etc. etc. its not like the Raptor will remain the top of tech. forever with the bomber project and UCAVs coming up.
(other nations might be scared away if it is decided that the total cost of reactivating the plane would be put on their orders)
http://www.financialexpress.com/news...-india/741854/F-22 Raptor, 'smartest fighter' likely at Aero India
MANU PUBBY
Posted: Tuesday, Jan 25, 2011 at 0212 hrs IST
The world’s most advanced combat aircraft, the F-22 Raptor, is likely to make a rare appearance outside the US during the upcoming Aero India show in Bangalore next month. This will be the first appearance of the stealth fighter, which is also the only operational fifth generation fighter aircraft in the world, in India and its third participation at an international air show.
kickass!!!!!
Will have to get into that aero India exhibition if it really does, and borrow a really good camera.
Last edited by kuku; 25 Jan 11, at 07:55.
cheers
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