More Hope For The F-22?

**Jimmy** · 30 Jan 11,, 17:00

Pelicans are already in service around the world. Somebody get John McCain on the phone!

**123** · 01 Feb 11,, 03:26

Originally Posted by gf0012-aust

How does a technology demonstrator with at least 2 different models, and with no window on IOC let alone confirmation thats its close to being the foundation model pose a threat to a mature "real" 5th gen asset that has gone through block updates, and is already established as part of a US fighting system.

The J20 is not even remotely close to being a threat.

this debate is really going down hill and ignoring the reality of the timelines for aircraft development, let alone the issue of arguing about the merits of a platform when warfighting is a systems event.

Technology demonstrator? You really need to be looking on Chinese military forums, if you think the J-20 is as simple as a "technology demonstrator", then there's really nothing more that needs to be said.
I'm talking about capabilities shown through its design, aerodynamic layout, and airframe. What we do know about this "technology demonstrator" poses a threat to the F-22. What would you expect from such an advanced airframe? Even if it is just a technology demonstrator, it shows that China has got the technology, and they obviously want a fifth gen fighter to be in service as soon as possible, they've got the financial backings on top of all these, if these are not enough to pose a threat to the F-22, then why is the U.S. worried? Why should they be concerned at all if "the J-20 is not even remotely close to being a threat"?

The question is not if it is a threat, but when; how soon it will go into service. It's okay to disagree, but I'll make a bet with you, and we can look back on this post 10 years later, when I guarantee the "technology demonstrator" will become a threat. If not, then I will never talk about another jet fighter in the duration of my life.

**gf0012-aust** · 01 Feb 11,, 04:57

Originally Posted by 123

Technology demonstrator? You really need to be looking on Chinese military forums, if you think the J-20 is as simple as a "technology demonstrator", then there's really nothing more that needs to be said.

I do look at chinese forums. I am after all part chinese.

I do not however take my input from a lot of the people on those forums who are fundamentally clueless about weapons systems and platform development. That is glaringly apparent. Me, well I've done this for 30+ years. It should be patently apparent that a few of the other posters on have a background that qualifies them to provide serious commentary that should be listened to rather than dismissed just because they're not queueing up as poster children to the plane.

Originally Posted by 123

I'm talking about capabilities shown through its design, aerodynamic layout, and airframe. What we do know about this "technology demonstrator" poses a threat to the F-22. What would you expect from such an advanced airframe? Even if it is just a technology demonstrator, it shows that China has got the technology, and they obviously want a fifth gen fighter to be in service as soon as possible, they've got the financial backings on top of all these, if these are not enough to pose a threat to the F-22, then why is the U.S. worried? Why should they be concerned at all if "the J-20 is not even remotely close to being a threat"?

come on, be serious. suspend national pride and look at the article in its entirety. This has got zero to do with it being chinese. If the article was australian or canadian I'd be saying the same things.

Originally Posted by 123

The question is not if it is a threat, but when; how soon it will go into service.

yes, in an IOC form at least - I have doubts about that based on my work experience in platform development. I may be wrong, but its not based on nationalism or parochialism

Originally Posted by 123

It's okay to disagree, but I'll make a bet with you, and we can look back on this post 10 years later, when I guarantee the "technology demonstrator" will become a threat. If not, then I will never talk about another jet fighter in the duration of my life.

I'll bet you that in 10 years time that the final product has as much relationship to this that the ATF had to the F-22

I don't expect you to not talk about the plane which china has every right to be proud of as a development and example of chinese skills - this is way beyond that discussion item.

btw, you have senior chinese officials referring to this as a technology demonstrater - something that Xinhui is probably able to attest to.

when it goes to IOC (in 2-5 years time), then that article will not be a demonstrater - these are.

**beez26** · 12 Feb 11,, 18:48

Very doubtful under this administration although I believe we need more f-22's and not rely so heavily on the F-35 (white elephant) I dont believe anymore f-22's are in the near future anway. It would be nice but I am not holding my breath.

**123** · 24 Feb 11,, 23:36

Originally Posted by gf0012-aust

I'll bet you that in 10 years time that the final product has as much relationship to this that the ATF had to the F-22

I don't expect you to not talk about the plane which china has every right to be proud of as a development and example of chinese skills - this is way beyond that discussion item.

btw, you have senior chinese officials referring to this as a technology demonstrater - something that Xinhui is probably able to attest to.

when it goes to IOC (in 2-5 years time), then that article will not be a demonstrater - these are.

And Hu, being the president and the Chairman of the Central Military Commission claimed that he "did not know a thing about the J20 taking its maiden flight." Do you really think they were being honest?

"come on, be serious. suspend national pride and look at the article in its entirety. This has got zero to do with it being chinese. If the article was australian or canadian I'd be saying the same things."

I would've said the same things had the plane been Russian or American. This has nothing to do with "national pride". Just like I would have no trouble saying the F22 is one of if not the best fifth generation fighters in the world, simple as that.

Am I proud of China's breakthrough/advances? Yes of course, but I'm not going to point to a pink marker and call it purple.