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Thread: EUROSAM offers technology transfer to Turkey for Aster 30 SAMP/T

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    EUROSAM offers technology transfer to Turkey for Aster 30 SAMP/T

    MBDA relies on hi-tech transfer to win Turkish defense deal
    ÜMİT ENGİNSOY
    GENOA - Hürriyet Daily News
    Monday, December 6, 2010
    Competing with rivals from the United States, Russia and China for Turkey’s multibillion-dollar national air defense system contract, the mainly Italian-French missile maker Eurosam, maker of the SAMP/T, wants to jointly develop and manufacture the defensive weapon system with Turkish companies

    Representatives of European missile maker Eurosam said they are relying on the consortium's ability to offer high technology transfer rates and a joint development capability with Ankara to win a major Turkish air defense contract.

    "There is a genuine and sincere friendship between Italy and Turkey. We are offering a great rate of technology transfer, we can jointly design systems, we can develop systems and we can jointly export them," said Michele Lastella, head of communications at the Italy branch of MBDA, an Italian member company of the Eurosam consortium, during a briefing in Rome late last week.

    "We are ready to meet the customer's requirements at the most advanced level. If the others cannot do this, it is not our matter," said Sergio Cavicchi, vice president and exports and sales director at MBDA.

    Turkey is currently considering bids for the construction of a number of additions to its national defense cache. Many analysts suggest the United States and European bids for the contract have the highest chances of winning the contract, while Russian and Chinese alternatives are lagging mainly because of their products' non-compliance with NATO systems.

    Among bids being considered by the Turkish defense procurement agency are the Eurosam developed Aster 30 SAMP/T, a land-based air defense system effective against high-speed threats such as tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, combat aircraft and unmanned combat vehicles.

    Eurosam is competing with the U.S. Raytheon and Lockheed Martin partnership’s Patriot Advanced Capability-3, or PAC-3; Russia’s Rosoboronexport who are touting their S300, and; China’s Precision Machinery Export-Import Corp’s offer of its HQ-9. Turkey is expected to pick the winner of the multibillion-dollar contract late next year.

    Competition

    "We are wondering to what degree the Russian and Chinese options could be integrated into the NATO system," said Giovanni Uccella, Turkey representative of Finmeccanica, one of the parent companies of MBDA, at a briefing in Rome.

    "When it comes to technology transfer, our pledges don't stay as words, but come true," Antonio Perfetti, president of Eurosam and general manager of MBDA Italy, said at a recent briefing in Sabaudia, Italy.

    Eurosam's SAMP/T is the most cutting-edge long-range and medium-altitude air and ballistic missile defense systems in the world. It was successfully tested against an incoming ballistic missile in France in October. The Italian and French armies have started using the SAMP/T and the system's naval version is being used by Italy, France and Britain.

    "The [most cutting-edge system] should be selected," Uccella said, adding that the PAC-3 has been around for many years.

    Eurosam is a joint venture between MBDA, Europe’s largest missile maker, and French electronic company Thales. Finmeccanica owns 25 percent of MBDA, while EADS, the European giant, and Britain’s BAE Systems each own 37.5 percent.

    Government lobbying

    The U.S. and European contenders are also stepping up competition at the government level in an effort to win the large-scale Turkish contract.

    According to the recent release of highly classified U.S. diplomatic correspondences by WikiLeaks, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates strongly lobbied on behalf of the U.S. bid at meetings with Turkish counterparts. "Nothing can compete with the PAC-3 when it comes to capabilities," Gates was quoted as saying in a secret cable sent to Washington on Feb. 16. 2010, by then U.S. ambassador to Ankara James Jeffrey.

    Brigadier Gen. Francesco Diella, commander of Italy's Air Defense Artillery Command in Sabaudia, said his unit was content with the performance of the SAMP/T system. "We will be able to counter the menaces of the future with this system. Delivered last year, the systems will gain full effectiveness and efficiency in 2011," he told the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review.

    The SAMP/T is mobile, has all-azimuth defense, a short reaction time, simultaneous multiple engagement capability, anti-aircraft and anti-missile capabilities and has full autonomy and interoperability with other NATO systems, said Angelo Scozzari, a top engineer with MBDA.

    A typical SAMP/T battery includes a command and control vehicle, an Arabel X-band multi-function radar and up to six launch vehicles, each with eight missiles and a store of reload missiles. The system fires Aster 30 interceptor missiles to a range of 120 kilometers.

    Eurosam has signed a framework cooperation agreement with Turkish military electronics group Aselsam, missile manufacturer Roketsan, systems integrator Ayesas, software builder Havelsan and vehicle manufacturer BMC to develop new missile technology.

    The Undersecretariat for Defense Industries, Turkey's defense procurement agency, is retaining 50 percent of the work share in Turkey's national air defense system program for Turkish groups. The framework agreements explain the role the five Turkish companies would play in the project in the event Eurosam wins the contract.

    MBDA officials voiced willingness to jointly manufacture Otomat and Marte anti-ship missiles with Turkey.

    © 2009 Hurriyet Daily News
    URL: MBDA relies on hi-tech transfer to win Turkish defense deal - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review
    Turkey in addition to the planned NATO Anti-balistic missiles "shield" is also concurrently developing a solely Turkish controlled ABM system, through an array of Low, Medium and High altitude sub-systems.

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    I am interested in hearing members' opinions about the true performance of such state of the art missiles vs. the medium-ranged threat. Iran, for example, is pushing hard, and investing heavily, in hordes of conventionally-tipped missiles, such as the Shahab-3. Given their current sad state in conventional fighters, they look to their missiles to provide for offensive punch against targets like airfields and logistics depots.

    The original Patriot vs. the Iraqi SCUDs had mixed results. It appears that intercepts were made, but the sheer velocity and mass of the RV prevented its destruction.

    Will upgraded SAMs like these provide a real defense against such missiles, or is it pie-in-the-sky thinking? Will missiles always get through? Or will we need nuclear-tipped ABM's as postulated in the 1960's?

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    If Turkey's main goal is to be interoperable within NATO then the only choices are SAMP/T and PAC-3. SAMP/T is owned 66.6% by France and Turkey does not have a good relationship with them after denying their entry into the EU and the Armenian Genocide vote. They canceled their order for Turbomeca engines in the T-129 order for those reasons. Having Italy front the missile might help be they do know where it comes from. I would have said PAC-3 was a shoe-in if our relations weren't so shakey now over Iran. The Russians are ending production of the S-300 so there is little future for that. The S-400 RFI by Turkey was not even met.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRON1 View Post
    If Turkey's main goal is to be interoperable within NATO then the only choices are SAMP/T and PAC-3. SAMP/T is owned 66.6% by France and Turkey does not have a good relationship with them after denying their entry into the EU and the Armenian Genocide vote. They canceled their order for Turbomeca engines in the T-129 order for those reasons. Having Italy front the missile might help be they do know where it comes from. I would have said PAC-3 was a shoe-in if our relations weren't so shakey now over Iran. The Russians are ending production of the S-300 so there is little future for that. The S-400 RFI by Turkey was not even met.
    (1) Turkey purchased three different S-300 missile systems from Belarus and Ukraine back in 2008 to test them at the Konya training center with the NATO Electronic Warfare Training Field (EHTS) system built by local firm Havelsan: Turkey to buy S-300 systems for testing

    (2) Russia has offered the S-400 with technology transfer to Turkey: Russia offers Turkey direct sale of S-400s in bid outdo US competitors

    (3) Turkey's Gokturk-1 High resolution optical observation ("Spy") satellites have french input in them aswell. Despite this they won the Turkish satellite tender. There is no blanket boycot of French products: http://www.thalesgroup.com/Pages/Pre....aspx?id=13980
    Last edited by denizkuvetleri; 20 Dec 10, at 08:08.

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    Turkey’s main goal is to get through the EU’s entry gate.
    The French-Italy offer is a useful bargaining tool.

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    But the Europeans are not stupid. They understand that Turkey-US relations are in long-term decline and Russia is a big question for Turkey. So European suppliers are the only feasible alternative in the foreseeable future. As for the Chinese arms, their appearance in the vicinity of the EU’s borders would be perceived as a strategic threat for Europe and it’s own military manufacturers and as such would bring about strong retaliatory measures against Turkey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    Turkey’s main goal is to get through the EU’s entry gates
    Or is it?

    Turkey offers referendum gamble to Europe
    Published: 30 September 2010 | Updated: 04 October 2010
    Turkey offers referendum gamble to Europe | EurActiv
    Egemen Bağış, Turkey's chief EU negotiator, sought yesterday (29 September) to unblock Ankara's accession bid by calling on European Union countries to call referenda on the country's EU membership. Turkey may also chose to consult its citizens, he said.

    So-called 'Norway status' (see 'Background') appears to be a formula which Turkey is officially putting on the table, it emerged after a two-hour Q&A session between Bağış and the Brussels press.

    Bağış, who is a leading politician from Turkey's AKP party, repeatedly referred to Norway, which had completed accession negotiations but twice decided not to join the Union following referenda lost by narrow margins in 1972 and 1994.

    Turkey an asset, not a burden

    Bağış gave assurances that Turkey was such a strong asset to the EU that he was more doubtful of the result of the Turkish referendum than he was about those in EU countries seen today as Turkey-sceptic.

    "We have a very solid example in front of us. A country that I follow very closely – Norway. They conducted their negotiations, they completed their reforms, and they chose not to become a member."

    "The day we complete our negotiations, we will not be today's Turkey, just as today's Turkey is not the country from 51 years ago when we first applied. And I don't know what the Turkish nation will decide. And I don't know what the populations of some of the member states will decide."

    "Maybe like in the case of the UK we will be vetoed, but again like the UK we will go through with determination and become a member […] Or like Norway, we will not become a member, but we will be closely linked to the EU," the Turkish negotiator said.

    Asked by EurActiv if Turkey would accept a situation in which, for example, the French were to say 'no' to Turkey's accession in a referendum, Bağış replied: "Of course, why not? Because we make decisions based on the consequences. French people would calculate France's interest, when they go to the ballot box, and our people would calculate our interest, or self-interest."

    "But I believe that by the time we have completed the negotiations, the approach of French people will not be similar to the approach of French people today. I strongly believe that by the time we complete the negotiations, the European Union member states would try to lobby to make sure that Turks vote to become members of the EU," he added.

    The Turkish official strongly argued that Turkey had a lot to offer to the EU and would in fact relieve the Union of some of its burdens, instead of bringing additional ones. In particular, he mentioned the demographic factor, but also the economy.

    "In the first quarter of 2010 the Turkish economy grew by 11.8%. In the second quarter we grew by 10.8%. According to OECD calculations, we will continue to be one of the three fastest-growing economies of the world until 2017. Per capita income in Turkey has tripled for the last eight years. There is no other success story on the continent like it," Bağış said.

    "I'm confident in the growth of my country, I'm confident in the democratisation and economic prosperity of my country. To be honest, I don't have so much confidence in your economic prospects," he added wittily.

    'Open the chapters first'

    Asked if the 'Norway-type' formula was similar to ideas developed by leading MEP Elmar Brok in a recent EurActiv interview, Bağış said: "Today is not the time to decide on that. So Elmar should wait for us to complete the negotiations. And in order to complete the negotiations, we have to open the chapters of the negotiations. If you don't open the chapters, you don't close the chapters."

    The Turkish negotiator then hinted that a crucial test would be whether or not the EU decides to open the blocked energy chapter.

    "If I cannot open the energy chapter, I'm not really motivated to solve your energy problems," he said.

    Asked by EurActiv if this meant that there would be no Nabucco in such circumstances, he answered: "I didn't say that. If I can open the energy chapter, this gives me motivation to find solutions to solve your energy problems. If I don't have the possibility to open the energy chapter, I still do Nabucco, as long as it is in line with my national interest. We have to decide: are we partners or not? […] People are asking me: why are you going to allocate state funds and land for an energy project, when Europe is ignoring you on your energy chapter?"

    70% of the energy resources Europe needs are either to the north, to the south or to the east of Turkey, Bağış argued.

    "And no matter which energy project you and I might prefer, we need Turkey to cooperate," he said.

    Onus on Cyprus

    Asked who in fact was blocking the chapters, Bağış was quick to point the finger at Cyprus, which he called "Southern Cyprus", as Turkey does not recognise this EU member. But he argued that the positions of Cyprus were against the interests of its people.

    "If I were a Cypriot, I would vote for Turkey's membership of the EU more than Turkey's chief negotiator," Bağış said. "Put yourself in the shoes of a Cypriot. A country of 600.000, looking up at a country of 70 million, with the largest military in Europe, the sixth largest economy of Europe, the third largest, fastest-growing economy in the world," he said.

    Asked why Ankara was not complying with the Ankara Protocol and was not allowing vessels and planes from Cyprus into Turkish ports and airports, he said: "We can open our ports tomorrow. If the European Council decision of April 2004 was implemented, if Spanish, Dutch, German and French planes land at Ercan airport [in Northern Cyprus], if other European ships unload containers in Northern Cyprus, then Greek Cypriot planes and vessels are welcome to come."

    Bağış then argued that the Council decision taken on the eve of the 2004 enlargement was being implemented "only by Southern Cyprus". "This is hypocrisy," he fumed.

    Asked when would Turkey recognise Cyprus, an EU member state, and call it by its name, Bağış said today's Cyprus consisted of two "fully-functioning democracies".

    "We have to know what we are uniting. The world may have ignored that there are two different states on the island. Just because 15 [EU] member states made a wrong decision and admitted Southern Cyprus as the Cyprus Republic doesn't mean it was the right decision," he said.

    Positions
    Asked by EurActiv to comment on the idea of a 'Norway formula' and parallel referenda, Dr. Bahadir Kaleagasi, international coordinator of Turkish industry and business association TUSIAD, said that for Turkey's business, any other status than participation in the EU decision-making process was unacceptable.

    He stated: "So many prominent European politicians argue that the EU will be globally stronger in enlarging to Turkey. They are right. Moreover, Turkey is already essentially part of the EU sphere of values, law, policies and global interests. In and around Europe, Turkey is also the only model of a big emerging market, industrial economy, information society and democracy which does not rely on a reserve of natural resources such as oil or natural gas."

    "This model implies for Turkey to be a member of the EU exactly like it does for the actual EU members. Most of the EU legislation is directly or indirectly applied in Turkey. Therefore, any status other than Turkey's full participation to EU's policy-making system is unacceptable for the Turkish business because it would create problems of democratic legitimacy at the national level," he said.

    "For today, the priority for the EU-Turkey relations should be to set a target date for the membership. The referenda can then may be an issue to discuss when Turkey will be fulfilling the conditions of membership and if the EU continues to be attractive as a model of democratic credibility, peace, economic competitiveness and social development. As to the Norwegian case, political, economic and legal context and conditions are very different," he added.
    Turkey will not give concessions for EU membership. It has alternatives. The West has more to loose without Turkey.
    Last edited by denizkuvetleri; 20 Dec 10, at 13:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by denizkuvetleri View Post
    Turkey will not give concessions for EU membership. It has alternatives. The West has more to loose without Turkey.
    Sounds like wishful thinking.

    As for the words of the Turkish politicians, it’s just a theater.
    When a child doesn’t get what he wants, he pouts and pretends that it’s not what he would have liked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    Sounds like wishful thinking.

    As for the words of the Turkish politicians, it’s just a theater.
    When a child doesn’t get what he wants, he pouts and pretends that it’s not what he would have liked.
    NATO member Turkey is currently holding Military drills with the Peoples Republic of China. Alarm bells are ringing in Washington and Downing Street. I wonder why all the fuss ay it's only a military drill.
    The BTC (and Nabucco in the future) is what keeps Europe warm and EU plants running my friend. Who controls the BTC?

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