LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With QuotePilot training has moved on. There are such things as simulators nowadays.Originally Posted by Versus
So let me see if I got this one right.
You have a 5th generation aircraft, something that has never been tried before, something that is completly different from antyhing else and the program never took under the consideration a two seater, trainer variant? I mean, man, these are basic things, how you are going to train the pilots than?
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
Pilot training has moved on. There are such things as simulators nowadays.
Oh, a simulator...haha,oh well, good luck,than. And the Call of Duty multiplayer death mach is a next gen spec ops training. I am sure that future historians will agree, that the demise of American armed forces, started on the day when the first X-Box rolled out of the assembly line....
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
Well, since the launch of the box in 2001, the 'video game' pilot as you would like portray them, clobbered an entire national air force of some rogue country until they begged for cover from their once sworn enemy neighbour. And your 'call of duty mulitplayer death mach' man as you would like to portray them has basically won the war in Iraq so far and is on his way to fame in Afghanstan as well. If you call that demise, then give me that nation protected by these 'demising' forces and i would gladly live in it.
No matter how hard you try,Zinja, you can't simulate the reality. Pilots need to train in the air, they need to fly actual planes not 3d models. I am not trying to demean efforts of any soldier, no matter on which side he or she is. I was a soldier and I know how hard it is, and how important the good training is. Computer simulations cannot deliver that. Computers cannot simulate smells, stenches, concussions from the shock wave,pain from the shrapnel, they can't simulate blood.
Last edited by Versus; 02 Dec 10, at 13:06.
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
Who said pilots only do simulated training now? What im saying to you is the need for a two seater back then was indispensable because there were no realistic alternatives then. Fast forward to today, now you can have a 'as close to reality' training as is humanly possible on a simulator, the need of an instructor with you in the air is reasonably mitigated. Ironically, with a simulator you can create conditions that would otherwise be rare to encounter in real life but are crucial for pilot training. How many times do pilots find themselves with a SAM on thier tails? How many times do pilots have to eject in real life? If it was left to real life entire squadrons would never ever have the chance to train for these missions in a more realistic manner. Simulators have a priceless benefit as well.
The reality is, no matter how good your training is, the actual war is a big unknown. Nothing can prepare you for the things that lie there and situations that might accrue. That is why is so important to train in the realistic manner. Previous generations of combat aircraft had simulators but they also had live exercise with the instructors. That combination made the training successful. Relaying entirely on simulators is a disaster and having no two seater variant is even greater disaster.One hour of flight with the instructor is ten times more valuable than a hundred simulated hours. Sam launch simulation? No matter how realistic it is it is still a simulation. And since pilot knows that it is a simulation he is not afraid for his life, maybe he is afraid for his score and rating but that doesn't count in real life. In real life there is no such thing as regeneration and re spawn.
Last edited by Versus; 02 Dec 10, at 14:34.
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
Whether you are flying a twin seater or a simulater, actual war is always a big unknown.
And today? They still have simulators and instructors don't they? Simulator's used today are way ahead of those used by previous generations, make no mistake about that.
Who is relying on the simulator entirely? Pilots still fly the real thing. You don't need a twin seater for fly.
Can you tell me how actual flying in a twin seater makes the experience more real than in a simulator? Do you think a computer generated 'kill' or 'miss' in the air is any better than a simulation?
You are confusing two things here V. You are comparing real war combat with training. There are no 'real' SAM attacks whether in a two seater training or in a simulation.
The difference is that pilot in the simulator is a pilot in the simulator and the pilot in the aircraft is a the pilot in the aircraft.
1.Mike is a brave patriotic kid whom is a cadet training to be a JSF pilot.
2.Mike flies a simulator and Mike gets shoot down by the SAM.
3.Mike is depressed
4.Mike flies a simulated mission again and again it gets shoot down by the SAM
5.Mike is angry
6.Mike flies a simulated mission again and dodges the missile.
7.Mike is happy
9.Mike flies simulated mission again and again dodges the missile.
10. Mike feels invincible.
11. The day has come, Mike now flies real F-35 and Mike is good pilot.
12. Mike is in the Red Flag and Mike scores hits, Mike is the best.
13. Mike feels like a superman
14. Mike gets deployed in a real theater.
15. Mike flies and SAM lifts off
16. Mike performs a maneuver and countermeasures to avoid SAM just as he did in the simulator.
17. SAM that is fired at Mike is a different, more advanced missile than the one in the simulator.
18. Mike knows that he is doing the things right, he dodged the missiles before in the simulator.
20. Mike is dead.
Reason?
In war, no matter how well trained you are, fear is the thing that keeps you on alert. Simulations make you numb.
Advantages of flying a two seater with the instructor behind you are:
1. You are flying an actual airplane and you brain recognizes that as true since it is true.
2. You are not flying alone, you are flying with someone whom has more knowledge than you, so you learn faster and you feel safer.
3. You learn your place in the hierarchy, that you are a young pilot and that you need to learn, which automatically reduces a chance that you will be reckless when you are flying solo.
Again, maybe I am an old school and maybe I am wrong but driving schools in the US still have the driving instructors don't they? Or that is simulated now...
Last edited by Versus; 02 Dec 10, at 16:29.
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
Yeah, and Mike's F-35 transformed into Optimus Prime..., this is getting silly, im out!
I am right behind you
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
How would any other plane be different? Other than being unstealthy and getting shot down 100km before? :P
The issue is not F35 and its characteristics the issue is training. If the F-35 is so stealthy why there are surface to air missles in the simulated scenarios? Unecessary waste of system resources and server times.
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
This is getting a bit silly.
As Zinja pointed out, pilots train in both simulators and actual flight.
What do you see as the solution to this precieved problem that you outlined, Versus?
Should we fire real SAM and have the pilots shoot each other with real missiles in ACM exercises?
Last edited by YellowFever; 02 Dec 10, at 19:29.
Having simulators is fine, heck even great. All you need now are two seater variants of F-22 and F-35 and you will be just fine. It is for your own good and it will be a huge benefit for USAAF.
Training:
1.Theory
2.Simulator
3.Simulator/trainer aircraft
4.Simulator/advanced trainer aircraft
5.Simulator/two seater F-22 or F-35
6.Fully trained F-22 or F-35 pilot.
Well you don't have to fire a real sam, but a sudden flare from a flare gun, during the training flight is enough.
Last edited by Versus; 02 Dec 10, at 19:43.
When I grow up I want to be Ed Harris
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Share this thread with friends: