Thread: F-22 missing out of Elmendorf

90 miles NE of Elmendorf is up in the Denali, midway to Fairbanks. Rugged terrain, no roads. Hope the pilot punched out okay, that's a hard place to survive this time of year.

I hope he's alright. Is it normal for no messages from the pilot in a situation like this? Is there a possibility of foul play?

If the computer crashed I think pretty much everything is dead as far as normal communications and flight controls. Foul play is not likely imo.

There should be a transponder on the ejection seat.

Problem is the remoteness and the terrain- it's all mountains and glaciers. Really hard to find someone and really hard to mount a rescue operation. It could easily be over 10,000 feet and freezing cold. Even a safe landing with a parachute is a tricky proposition.

Lots of people die up there every year.

Originally Posted by highsea

If the computer crashed I think pretty much everything is dead as far as normal communications and flight controls. Foul play is not likely imo.

There should be a transponder on the ejection seat.

Problem is the remoteness and the terrain- it's all mountains and glaciers. Really hard to find someone and really hard to mount a rescue operation. It could easily be over 10,000 feet and freezing cold. Even a safe landing with a parachute is a tricky proposition.

Lots of people die up there every year.

Now is a race against time. Hope they find him soon:

Search for pilot continues after Alaska jet crash

By DAN JOLING
The Associated Press
Wednesday, November 17, 2010; 11:43 PM

JOINT BASE ELMENDORF-RICHARDSON, Alaska -- An aerial search was scheduled to continue throughout the night for the pilot of an Air Force F-22 fighter jet that crashed in a remote area of interior Alaska during a training exercise.

Rescue aircraft spotted the wreckage Wednesday about 100 miles north of Anchorage, and pararescuemen from the Alaska Air National Guard scoured the crash site until being flown out for the night.

"There's no sign of the pilot at this point, from what I've been told," guard spokesman Maj. Guy Hayes said.

But he said two Air Guard helicopters and a C-130 airplane planned to continue searching throughout the night for a sign that the pilot had ejected and survived, such as a parachute or a campfire.

The pilot's name has not been released.

The single-seat jet took off Tuesday from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Anchorage on a training run.

It was in the air about an hour and 20 minutes and was nearing the end of the training run at 7:40 p.m. when ground radar lost track of it and another pilot on the mission lost communications, said Air Force Col. Jack McMullen, the base 3rd Wing commander.

The pilot had split off from the other jet and was about to do a "rejoin" before both returned to Anchorage as a unit flying about two miles apart, McMullen said.

The other pilot refueled in the air and began searching for the missing aircraft.

The Alaska Air National Guard aircraft joined the search and continued until about 5 a.m. Wednesday. New crews then picked up the search.

A helicopter spotted the wreckage at 10:15 a.m. but did not immediately land because of the threat of hazardous materials.

"It was being considered a haz-mat scene," Hayes said. "They had to get the right gear flown out there to the location so that the pararescuemen and the crash site recovery folks could safely get down there and do a search."

If the pilot ejected, he would be prepared for subzero weather, McMullen said.

"They have survival gear," McMullen said. "He's Arctic trained to survive in that environment. He's got the gear on. He's got stuff in his survival kit, so that he could hunker himself down and fight the extreme cold."

The twin-engine F-22 Raptor entered service in the mid-2000s and arrived at Elmendorf in August 2007. It's far more maneuverable and stealthy than earlier jets and can cruise at more than 1 1/2 times the speed of sound without using its afterburner. Its top speed is confidential.

Congress last year stopped production of the plane, built by Lockheed Martin Corp., by eliminating $1.75 billion that would have added seven F-22s to the Air Force's fleet.

An F-22 crashed in March 2009 near Edwards Air Force Base in California, killing the pilot. In July, a C-17 cargo jet from the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf crashed during a training demonstration for an air show, killing all four crewmen aboard.

Pararescuers will return Thursday, Hayes said.

"They're going to put them back in at first light, or they'll put in somebody - a crash recovery team or somebody."
© 2010 The Associated Press

Missing F-22 Found:

Washington (CNN) -- Search and rescue crews have found the wreckage of an Alaska-based Air Force F-22 that went missing on a training mission. But the search continues for the pilot in the single-seat aircraft.

The wreckage was discovered Wednesday, a day after the aircraft lost contact with air traffic control, officials from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson at Anchorage, Alaska, said.

The pilot, whose name was not released, was on a routine nighttime training mission, officials said.

Helicopters and a search-and-rescue plane were dispatched to comb the area northeast of Cantwell, Alaska, the last known location of the aircraft, the Air Force said in a statement.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of this missing Airman, and we thank all Alaskans for their continued support and prayers during this trying time," said Col. Jack McMullen, 3rd Wing commander. "Finding the missing pilot is our top priority."

Meanwhile, officials in Florida are searching for a military aircraft that was reported missing late Wednesday night. Shane Smith, communications officer with the Highlands County Sheriff's Office, said deputies were assisting in the search for the plane that was reported missing at 10 p.m. ET.

No additional information was immediately available.

Rescue crew finds wreckage of missing plane - CNN.com

By this flying accident rate, in 10 years, the USAF's fleet of Raptors would be down to roughly around 140-150. I don't think that is enough to make any difference in any air war or battle.

Originally Posted by Blademaster

By this flying accident rate, in 10 years, the USAF's fleet of Raptors would be down to roughly around 140-150. I don't think that is enough to make any difference in any air war or battle.

I agree, twice as many would not be enough.

Then the F-22 Raptor has become the biggest white elephant of all time. Not even the B-2 takes the cake. I think we got so caught up in this stealth shit when the economics doesn't justify it as compared to the still favorable economics of F-15Es and upgraded versions due to the overwhelming "need" to have zero casualties. The irony is that due to our overwhelming need for zero casualties, the F-22 has become the biggest casualties, a feat that no enemy could achieve.

At least we aren't alone in the 5th generation craze. The Chinese and Russians will probably only be able to secured 300-400 tops of those twin engine heavy fighters, and I'll bet fifty to anyone that those things spend at least two thirds of their time being overhauled and remanufactured.

I don't think so. Russian planes have a reputation for being rugged due to the harsh climates that Russian planes have to cope with. Also IAF has a very skilled corp of mechanics who can maintain and repair planes on the fly.

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Then the F-22 Raptor has become the biggest white elephant of all time. Not even the B-2 takes the cake. I think we got so caught up in this stealth shit when the economics doesn't justify it as compared to the still favorable economics of F-15Es and upgraded versions due to the overwhelming "need" to have zero casualties. The irony is that due to our overwhelming need for zero casualties, the F-22 has become the biggest casualties, a feat that no enemy could achieve.

Blademaster, the F-22 costs only ~$140 million dollars and is able to score on the order of 100 : 1 air combat victories against the F-15. That's a 50 : 1 ratio of exchange in material cost in terms of combat losses. In comparison, for the same amount of money, the glorious city of Los Angeles managed to put up some new lights, walls, and little coffee tables up in the LAX international terminal (which is probably a story in and of itself). $140 million is not a lot of money these days, we can afford it, almost all of the money goes back into the US economy, and the skills and expertise gained keeps our manufacturing sector ahead and allows us to sell nifty things like the F-35.

I would not be at all surprised if the F-22 fighter is a net money maker for the US economy.

It is certainly not a white elephant. Its cancellation was an enormous failure that was snatched right quick from the jaws of victory by the real white elephant, ie the guy sitting in the White House.

Originally Posted by citanon

Blademaster, the F-22 costs only ~$140 million dollars and is able to score on the order of 100 : 1 air combat victories against the F-15. That's a 50 : 1 ratio of exchange in material cost in terms of combat losses. In comparison, for the same amount of money, the glorious city of Los Angeles managed to put up some new lights, walls, and little coffee tables up in the LAX international terminal (which is probably a story in and of itself). $140 million is not a lot of money these days, we can afford it, almost all of the money goes back into the US economy, and the skills and expertise gained keeps our manufacturing sector ahead and allows us to sell nifty things like the F-35.

I would not be at all surprised if the F-22 fighter is a net money maker for the US economy.

It is certainly not a white elephant. Its cancellation was an enormous failure that was snatched right quick from the jaws of victory by the real white elephant, ie the guy sitting in the White House.

Another way of thinking about the cost: each F-22 costs about ~$1 per working American, less than the amount of money we spend on Coca Cola, every day.

The pilot is still missing. He's been identified as Capt. Jeffrey Haney.



http://link.brightcove.com/services/...d=679249563001


F-22 pilot missing since Tuesday night plane crash in Alaska identified as Capt. Jeffrey Haney, formerly of Jackson County | MLive.com

F-22 pilot missing since Tuesday night plane crash in Alaska identified as Capt. Jeffrey Haney, formerly of Jackson County
Published: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 1:19 PM Updated: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 3:28 PM
Danielle Salisbury | Jackson Citizen Patriot Danielle Salisbury | Jackson Citizen Patriot
BKHANEY_19990521.jpgFile photoJeff Haney is shown in this 1999 file photo.

The missing pilot of an Air Force F-22 fighter jet that crashed this week in a remote area of interior Alaska is Air Force Capt. Jeffrey A. Haney, whose mother lives in Jackson County, the man Haney calls his stepdad confirmed today.

Mike Viane, who has lived with Haney's mother for more than 20 years, said Haney's mother, Linda, and father are now on a plane to Alaska, where they will join Haney's wife, Anna, and the couple's two young daughters.
web_f22.jpgMCT News ServiceF-22 Raptor
The two left this morning and are to arrive before midnight tonight, he said from he and Linda Haney's home on Gillette Road west of Brooklyn.

Haney, 31, has been in the Air Force for about five years, Viane said. He graduated from Columbia Central High School in 1997 and went to flight school at Western Michigan University.

He did his first pilot training at the Jackson County Airport, Viane said.
Haney is one of the Air Force's best pilots, Viane said. "Top of the class, as they say."

He is to eventually be an F-22 fighter jet instructor, Viane said.


Haney is stationed at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Anchorage. His wife and children lived off the base, Viane said.
RELATED LINKS
• Search for pilot continues after Alaska F-22 crash (The Washington Post)

• Officials Hopeful Pilot Survived Alaska Fighter Jet Crash (FOX News)

• F-22 Fighter Jet (New York Times
Haney's Air Force F-22 Raptor went missing Tuesday night during a training mission from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson. The fighter jet’s wreckage was discovered Wednesday.

The jet was on a nighttime training mission and lost contact with air traffic control at 7:40 p.m. local time Tuesday, according to a statement by the base. The F-22 was flying with another plane, which also lost contact with it, according to the Air National Guard.

The missing F-22 is assigned to Elmendorf’s 3rd Wing.

“Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of this missing Airman, and we thank all Alaskans for their continued support and prayers during this trying time,” said Col. Jack McMullen, 3rd Wing commander, in a written statement. “Finding the missing pilot is our top priority.”

No it wasn't cancelled by the guy sitting in the White House. It was cancelled by Bob Gates, who happened to be a Republican and served under Bush and Obama. Even Cheney, Rumsfeld, and others wanted to cancel the Raptors.

I am not sure if F-22 is a net money maker if it is a hangar queen and and only servicable at a fraction of time and loses its stealth under certain but common conditions that happen frequently.