F/A 18 Super Hornet

**Andrey Egorov** · 09 Oct 10,, 18:15

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

IMO, Anyhting is possible but the CVN is not without her own monitioring systems for subs. Plus Oscar would have to approach and get by her sub escorts which would make it not only diffacult but could also easily give the CVN a heads up once a torp launch is detected. Damage control in the USN is essential.

I meant 24 Oscar's Shipwrecks. I can hardly believe anything hostile can get inside carrier escort group. Only a 24-missile salvo from 200 nm can succeed, imo

**Dreadnought** · 09 Oct 10,, 18:19

Originally Posted by Andrey Egorov

I meant 24 Oscar's Shipwrecks. I can hardly believe anything hostile can get inside carrier escort group. Only a 24-missile salvo from 200 nm can succeed, imo

Possible and questionable, she would normally have atleast one DDG with her. AEGIS is a very good tracking system that shares info to other ships. Oscar could be hit from a direction shes not even watching. As mentioned anything is possible, its the reaction time that counts most once a launch is detected. But you can pretty much state that any launch detected will meet with immediate reprisal. Just one shot could start an entire shooting match. Is it worth it?

**USSWisconsin** · 09 Oct 10,, 18:36

Originally Posted by Andrey Egorov

I meant 24 Oscar's Shipwrecks. I can hardly believe anything hostile can get inside carrier escort group. Only a 24-missile salvo from 200 nm can succeed, imo

It is quite possible that a couple of Aegis escorts could shoot down 24 missiles - I think a few Oscars ( 2-3 x 24) would be needed for a sure kill. If they get a CVN kill, what would be done to their bases in response? (the Oscars would be sunk for sure, but what else?)

**Dreadnought** · 09 Oct 10,, 18:40

Air groups on the Nimitz Class carriers can launch just about anything.

**Andrey Egorov** · 09 Oct 10,, 18:43

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Possible and questionable, she would normally have atleast one DDG with her. AEGIS is a very good tracking system that shares info to other ships. Oscar could be hit from a direction shes not even watching. As mentioned anything is possible, its the reaction time that counts most once a launch is detected.

The submarine itself is expendable after the salvo. It was intended to fire all its missiles at once and run away immediately as fast as it can. If it makes home - fine, otherwise, carrier-submarine exchange is pretty valuable. The same tactic was developed for 1144's
We'll never know how efficiently large Shipwreck salvo can defeat AEGIS or vice versa which makes me quite happy.

**Andrey Egorov** · 09 Oct 10,, 18:45

Originally Posted by USSWisconsin

It is quite possible that a couple of Aegis escorts could shoot down 24 missiles - I think a few Oscars ( 2-3 x 24) would be needed for a sure kill. If they get a CVN kill, what would be done to their bases in response? (the Oscars would be sunk for sure, but what else?)

I can't tell you the story, but I know the final - worldwide radioactive wasteland

**jlvfr** · 09 Oct 10,, 18:46

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Disagree, you can launch planes from 20 knots of wind over the deck. Pending, mother nature herself could supply more then half if not enough wind lift to launch planes without driving the carrier into the wind. Just face the wind if need be.

But with what load? As for nature, remember the argentinians who tried to launch A-4s to attack the RN in the Falklands. An area that is always windy all of a sudden couldn't provide enough wind to launch an A-4, even with a single bomb...

**Dreadnought** · 09 Oct 10,, 19:15

Originally Posted by jlvfr

But with what load? As for nature, remember the argentinians who tried to launch A-4s to attack the RN in the Falklands. An area that is always windy all of a sudden couldn't provide enough wind to launch an A-4, even with a single bomb...

IMO, That would depend upon the mission. The cats are adjusted to the weight of the aircraft with other considerations such as load out etc. You also have to remember that the Argies had a third hand carrier built during WWII that served not only the Royal Navy but also the Royal Netherlands Navy.So the Brits already had a good idea of her performance with poor wind flow over the deck. Catapult tech has come a long way since that ship was built. And yes, they do state that poor winds attributed to the failure of them to launch against the Brits so then it would require them to turn into the wind and speed up. However, we will never know how this would have turned out since the Brits bloodied their nose sinking the Belgrano first which forced the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo into port seeking safety. Little did they know that HMS Spartan was busy tracking her with orders to sink her as well. It iturned out better that they ran for port instead of loosing another capital ship and perhaps even more lives antiquated as it may be.

**jlvfr** · 09 Oct 10,, 20:03

All true, older weaker cats, but remember they were launching 18-19000pound A-4s (loaded). An F-18E weights around 47000 (loaded) so the needs for wind/cat are gonna scale up. Say you can launch an F-18 with 4 AAMs. For strike purposes that carrier is out of business...

Damn.. now I really wanna know this :(

**Dreadnought** · 09 Oct 10,, 20:43

Originally Posted by jlvfr

All true, older weaker cats, but remember they were launching 18-19000pound A-4s (loaded). An F-18E weights around 47000 (loaded) so the needs for wind/cat are gonna scale up. Say you can launch an F-18 with 4 AAMs. For strike purposes that carrier is out of business...

Damn.. now I really wanna know this :(

Yes, she was originally a WWII CVL (Carrier Vessel Lite) originally designed to launch aircraft during WWII which would mean the aircraft would have been much liter then the A-4 Skyhawks they were launching during the Faulkland campaign. Ordinance would have changed in weight factors as well. I couldnt find any instance where the cats were upgraded since being sold by the Brits to the Netherlands for service although they (Argentina) did remove the cats for service on another ship.

"The Argentine Navy could not procure the funds for a modernization and new engines, leading to decommissioning by 1997, by this time her catapult and other systems had already been stripped and transplanted into her sister ship the Brazilian NAeL Minas Gerais which had also been heavily modified in the Netherlands. [http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/ve...story_BN.html] Finally in 2000, she was towed to Alang, India for scrapping.

Although the Minas Gerais was offered to the Argentine Navy as a replacement in 2000 she was rejected due to her poor condition and high restoration and maintenance costs. Argentine cooperation with Brazil has meant that the naval air wing has continued to operate from the deck of carrier NAe São Paulo in joint exercises."

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/305226

**Kilo 2-3** · 09 Oct 10,, 20:56

CAG could elect to launch his strikers and CAPs with minimal fuel loads and suitable ordnance loads then gas them up from tankers. Even with only nominal headway and a decent wind, a determined air group is still going to be able to hit back if called on.

**jlvfr** · 09 Oct 10,, 21:26

And where are you geting the tankers from? F-18s with budy packs? Heavy loads (btw, I'm assuming you're not gonna call the USAF for taking; that's cheating

)

**jlvfr** · 09 Oct 10,, 21:31

Ooo found this! Go to almost the end:
The F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet"

"Minimum wind over deck:

Launching 35 knots

Recovery 19 knots"

at max TO weight.

**Kilo 2-3** · 09 Oct 10,, 22:36

How is calling on other zoomies cheating? In some situations you can call on land-based air forces to help out. Besides, you could probably launch buddy-packed aircraft with enough gas to make a difference and still be under the reduced MTOW this case dictates. Wouldn't be easy, but it could be done.

**jlvfr** · 09 Oct 10,, 23:51

Originally Posted by Kilo 2-3

How is calling on other zoomies cheating? In some situations you can call on land-based air forces to help out. Besides, you could probably launch buddy-packed aircraft with enough gas to make a difference and still be under the reduced MTOW this case dictates. Wouldn't be easy, but it could be done.

I thought the navy didn't need the air force for anything (or, at least, or rather sink than admit it...)