F/A 18 Super Hornet

**USSWisconsin** · 12 Oct 10,, 16:04

Originally Posted by gunnut

It's inevitible for this discussion to turn into a debate on fleet air defense. That's part of the F-18 E/F's job as the replacement for the legendary F-14. As such, it will encounter likely threats from Soviet style tactics to overwhelm the carrier group. Then we get into the other aspects of fleet air defense, and then the tactics developed to counter that. And so on and so forth.

This just proves that we at WAB do not look at a single weapon system, ie the "vs threads" that populate other forums but get locked here quickly. We look at the integrated defense network, including logistics. It's a lot more interesting than compare numbers like speed, climb rate, and turn rate. Don't you think so?

WAB's discussions on weapons systems are much more analytical than most, I beleive the well rounded and probing studies of systems here are extremely educational, I am sure the people who design and use them would be interested in some of the insights that we have come up with on this forum. I know that I have learned a lot in the few years I have been involved, and I am very grateful for the opportunity to participate.

**Pakmiran** · 12 Oct 10,, 16:51

Originally Posted by Jimmy

One of the most ridiculously ineffective weapons ever.

Really? What's the lowdown on it? I haven't heard much, but the idea sounds like a carrier-hunter's wet dream.

**Andrey Egorov** · 12 Oct 10,, 18:32

Originally Posted by drhuy

what i was trying to say is not about technical aspect but about operational one. You seem to indicate that by using quantity (salvo) one can overcome the fleet defense. so I reminded you that USN has much higher number of both platforms and weapons, both offensive and defensive, against russian fleet.

The fact that the leading missile lifts up makes little sense coz they still need midcourse update anyway, the onboard radars only work in the final phase no matter how high it flies.

Yes, carriers are physically big, but it doesnt necessarily mean they will stand out clearly, especially from hundred miles away. When the Argentine hit the Atlantic Conveyor, they first thought they got one of the british carriers.

After all, its all about system vs. system.

I don't get about midcourse updates, P-700's are claimed completely autonomous after launch in salvo, "fire and forget" weapon, all guidance is provided by a missile that goes subsonic on high profile trajectory with radar working all the way.
P-700's operate in temporary network, distributing targets between them and developing tactic of attack according to program loaded before launch. A P-700 can define the type of a ship it "sees" and the formation it's in, i.e. whether it's a convoy or a carrier group. The main computer of missile is still evolving, the software is improving day by day.

My point is ship not equipped with AEGIS can't defeat a P-700, it's formidable weapon against single ship, almost unstoppable. A salvo of P-700's is even more dangerous.

**Andrey Egorov** · 12 Oct 10,, 18:54

Originally Posted by Pakmiran

Really? What's the lowdown on it? I haven't heard much, but the idea sounds like a carrier-hunter's wet dream.

Only if you're vile enough to attack the blind. Range less than 20 miles ruin it's carrier-hunter capability. But if you catch another submarine that's unaware of your presence that near you can count it's dead.

**omon** · 12 Oct 10,, 18:56

think of it as underwater canon, not torpedo,

**Zinja** · 12 Oct 10,, 23:32

Originally Posted by Andrey Egorov

Agreed

Only one P-700 in a salvo goes subsonic on high profile trajectory. If it hit, another one lifts up from low profile. The rest go 20 feet above the surface in silence at mach 2+
Again, I'm happy we'll never know how efficient AEGIS is

Wow! MKV-R tehnology? Is this a proven technology with the P-700s?

**Jimmy** · 13 Oct 10,, 04:08

Originally Posted by Pakmiran

Really? What's the lowdown on it? I haven't heard much, but the idea sounds like a carrier-hunter's wet dream.

For the sub to have ANY chance at survival, it has to beat feet to get out of the area as soon as he launches from long range, which leaves the torpedo unguided and moving in a straight line...good luck hitting anything at range.

**Stitch** · 13 Oct 10,, 04:14

Originally Posted by Jimmy

For the sub to have ANY chance at survival, it has to beat feet to get out of the area as soon as he launches from long range, which leaves the torpedo unguided and moving in a straight line...good luck hitting anything at range.

Yes, been discussed; as soon as the "torpedo" leaves the tube, it's pretty much an unguided underwater rocket that will be lucky to hit anything at range, especially if the target is manuevering.

**Andrey Egorov** · 13 Oct 10,, 06:52

Originally Posted by Zinja

Wow! MKV-R tehnology? Is this a proven technology with the P-700s?

Not really MKV, all P-700's are equal before launch. They elect leader after launch, presumably on some internal parameters.

Originally Posted by Jimmy

For the sub to have ANY chance at survival, it has to beat feet to get out of the area as soon as he launches from long range, which leaves the torpedo unguided and moving in a straight line...good luck hitting anything at range.

Originally Posted by Stitch

Yes, been discussed; as soon as the "torpedo" leaves the tube, it's pretty much an unguided underwater rocket that will be lucky to hit anything at range, especially if the target is manuevering.

It's not quite right. Shkval moves in short jumps, stopping to correct its course. It just can't travel too far

**NUS** · 13 Oct 10,, 16:56

Originally Posted by Jimmy

For the sub to have ANY chance at survival, it has to beat feet to get out of the area as soon as he launches from long range, which leaves the torpedo unguided and moving in a straight line...good luck hitting anything at range.

That's why it has a 150 ktn nuclear warhead and short range. You dont need much accuracy with it.
Export version with usual warhead is questionable indeed.

**1979** · 18 Oct 10,, 14:48

Originally Posted by Jimmy

One of the most ridiculously ineffective weapons ever.

My link (despite her name) was about Soviet ELINT satellites. I understood that the name of the thread might be misleading, hence my suggestion, to follow the discution from post # 107 on.