The mighty S-300

**xinhui** · 10 Sep 10,, 03:41

:notworthy:

**xinhui** · 10 Sep 10,, 03:42

:bana:

**bigross86** · 10 Sep 10,, 08:27

Nice pics. Interesting layout, from what I can see. I would have thought that they would have used the Star of David layout, six launchers and the radar in the middle

**Stitch** · 10 Sep 10,, 17:28

That stuff doesn't look so good, looks like it's been sitting around for a while; half the launchers have flat tires. I particularly like the URL address spray painted on the side of one of the trailers. Russia should sell this "surplus" and plow the money back into their S-500 program.

**kuku** · 22 Sep 10,, 17:20

22 September 2010 Last updated at 15:44 GMT
Kremlin bans sale of S-300 missile systems to Iran

The S-300 would have boosted Iran's air defences
The Kremlin has formally banned the sale of S-300 air defence missile systems to Iran three months after new UN sanctions

BBC News - Kremlin bans sale of S-300 missile systems to Iran

Russia containing Iran?
Or is this pressure from USA?

**Dreadnought** · 22 Sep 10,, 17:38

Originally Posted by kuku

BBC News - Kremlin bans sale of S-300 missile systems to Iran

Russia containing Iran?
Or is this pressure from USA?

UN Resolution 1929 bans their sale to Iran in violation of the NPT Treaty. They did get a few from what pics show but nowehere near as many they would need if anyone decided to take the sites out.

The S-300 is the older system compared to the S-400 system.

**kuku** · 22 Sep 10,, 17:50

Asked if Russia had torn up its contract with Iran, he replied: "We'll see. That will depend on how Iran behaves."

Back in June Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the new sanctions would not affect the S-300 contract.

However, shortly afterwards, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was quoted by French media as saying the sale had been suspended.

Why the change in stance?

They did get a few from what pics show but nowehere near as many they would need if anyone decided to take the sites out.

The S-300 is the older system compared to the S-400 system.

Its much more recent than the rest of the stuff, the kind Israel and USA expertise in blowing up.

**Dreadnought** · 22 Sep 10,, 18:19

Originally Posted by kuku

Why the change in stance?

Its much more recent than the rest of the stuff, the kind Israel and USA expertise in blowing up.

Maybe due to the fact that Iran has remained biligerant to the UNSC and the Atomic Inspectors.

**paintgun** · 23 Sep 10,, 02:53

Because Russia has helped to built and fuel a nuclear plant
That as consolation and negotiation piece for the Iranians

And yes to some extent to ease pressure from US diplomacy, compliance to UN
Russia put down other card to play, while the S-300 card remains on their hand

**Dreadnought** · 23 Sep 10,, 04:42

Originally Posted by paintgun

Because Russia has helped to built and fuel a nuclear plant
That as consolation and negotiation piece for the Iranians

And yes to some extent to ease pressure from US diplomacy, compliance to UN
Russia put down other card to play, while the S-300 card remains on their hand

*IMO, (may not mean much here) but I think any sort of negociations fell short long ago, Iran wants to antagonize and it will bring her whatever it may bring in reprisal. The S-300 system isint dick, especially for the number they have recieved. There is much in the way of tech the S-300 wont even see until its far too late. Its more or less a "paper tiger" in its numbers for the Iranians. The US could also easily sell Georgia and others far more advanced systems among others and spell immediate trouble for Iran's "builders" aspirations if they were so inclined to do.

As you can see from those photos above even the Russian military dont rely upon them with great expectation. Chances are they have the S-400 systems located elseware.

**paintgun** · 23 Sep 10,, 12:06

I won't rely on those photos to judge on the S-300, but let's put that (and Georgia)

aside.

S-300 for what it's worth (insert anyone's knowledge or appraisal about the effectiveness of the system), will be a tremendous asset to Iranian, considering what they have on their hands right now.

If they get the S-300, to increase their air defenses, any potential Israeli or US strike has to account for this factor as extra threat, and has to come up with new tactics and scenarios, if they haven't already. In short, more work to do if the Iranians do get the fabled almighty S-300.

There is reason for the Russian Foreign Ministry or US/Israeli officials making noise about the S-300 every so often (Netanyahu even went to Moscow, to stop the deal taking off the ground)
Either it's casual way to say 'Hey, we got this deal, now take care of it', or maybe the S-300 is a real pain in the ass to take care of.

**kuku** · 23 Sep 10,, 13:13

It seems that Israel also holds some good cards in this situation.

DATE:22/09/10
SOURCE:Flight International
Syrian missile deal threatens Russian/Israeli UAV pact

Moscow's intention to purchase more unmanned air vehicles from Israel and to develop a local manufacturing facility with that nation's help have been placed in doubt, following a deal to sell Russian-made anti-ship cruise missiles to Syria.
Russia has confirmed that it has approved the deal, which will transfer P-800 Yakhont missiles to the Syrian navy.

"We will have to reconsider all the proposed deals with Russia. Moscow did not show the needed understanding to our requests," says a senior Israeli defence source.
Russia has within the recent months purchased $50 million worth of mini UAV systems made by Israel Aerospace Industries.

Syrian missile deal threatens Russian/Israeli UAV pact

If Russia decides to cancel the sale of the missile then it could show that through greater economic integration and mutual defence deals it will be possible to integrate Russia with the western security concerns.

**Dreadnought** · 23 Sep 10,, 13:31

Originally Posted by paintgun

I won't rely on those photos to judge on the S-300, but let's put that (and Georgia)

aside.

S-300 for what it's worth (insert anyone's knowledge or appraisal about the effectiveness of the system), will be a tremendous asset to Iranian, considering what they have on their hands right now.

If they get the S-300, to increase their air defenses, any potential Israeli or US strike has to account for this factor as extra threat, and has to come up with new tactics and scenarios, if they haven't already. In short, more work to do if the Iranians do get the fabled almighty S-300.

There is reason for the Russian Foreign Ministry or US/Israeli officials making noise about the S-300 every so often (Netanyahu even went to Moscow, to stop the deal taking off the ground)
Either it's casual way to say 'Hey, we got this deal, now take care of it', or maybe the S-300 is a real pain in the ass to take care of.

*Look at it this way, If the Israeli's really want to send a message they wouldnt need aircraft to do it. They already have a nuke boomer operating in the area. So the S-300 system becomes an entirely moot point. The Israeli's could also use drones to carry the weapons needed. The S-300 system is far to primative to deal with todays stealthy drones and the Israeli's are very good with that tecnology. More or less the Israeli's dont want Russia to continue to arm the regime or Syria for that matter which makes good sense for defence purposes. Iran saw what happened to the first sight they were building in conjuction with Syria and North Korea inside of Syria. No one not even the Israeli's spoke of it until weeks later and Iran never acknowledged it happened. It was a warning of things to come if they continue down this path of threats.

**paintgun** · 23 Sep 10,, 16:12

I get your point with the Syria example, but attacking Syria and Iran (on range consideration alone) is a very different matter
but your previous post contains some other interesting points,

Israel is willing to deploy its nuclear weapons (as we have noticed in the news) but do you suggest that Israel might preemptively launch a nuclear strike just to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, even before Iran announcing they have a nuclear weapon program, or even before they announce they have nuclear weapons, or before they announce they are going to use nuclear weapons in hostility with Israel?

Do you suggest Israeli drones have the payload, range, and capability to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, to launch a series of attack rendering their nuclear facilities and program ineffective, spending precious political and diplomatic capital? A capability that even the USAF drones i doubt have.

My comments have triggered an OT discussion on this thread, if mod feels this should not continue, i will gladly comply, i am here not to defend the S-300 or Iran or Russia or whatever

Dreadnought sir, i mean no offense to you, but your post and the other one in the Chinese carrier thread smell like arrogance. Perhaps the other point view will serve you better. If i have offended you i apologize sincerely

**Dreadnought** · 23 Sep 10,, 17:51

Israel is willing to deploy its nuclear weapons (as we have noticed in the news) but do you suggest that Israel might preemptively launch a nuclear strike just to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, even before Iran announcing they have a nuclear weapon program, or even before they announce they have nuclear weapons, or before they announce they are going to use nuclear weapons in hostility with Israel?

*Iran is nothing more then an antagonist. The world is not going to wait for Iran to announce they have nucler weapons. The idea alone that they have broke the NPT alone gives the UNSC the right to act. Wether she does or not it is clear that Iran is and has been in violation of the Treaty. Even the IAEA commision has stated that Iran continues to interfere with their montioring. (Reference back to Saddam Hussein) and what happened to him after years of playing games with the UNSC and the IAEA. Although much wasnt found of his program, he still continued to antagonize. Had he been forthcoming, he might still be alive but perhaps not in power.

Israel under threat of destruction from Iran will do whatever they deem necessary to protect their way of life before this regime can field a weapon.

What I suggest, is that Israel has the technology to take out the sites if she deems it necessary, she is one of the forerunners of drone technology, If they have had this technology for this amount of time, there is no telling how they could employ it. Saudi Arabia has already give Israel the "green light" to overfly its airspace unmolested if Israel chose to take that route. The Saudi's are not happy about Irans threats nor their programs because it could trigger an arms race in their sphere. Iran funding groups such as Hezbolla and Hamas only adds fuel to this problem.

*You might want to look at what capabilities the present drones have. Soon they will be flying pilotless off of CV's and already have been in tests.

I would doubt they (Israel) would entrust one to a drone when their boomer can deliver one must faster and probably with much better accuracy and is already in the area.

*No worries, no offenses and the Mods chances are will allow the thread to continue. As far as arrogance, perhaps short in nice words but very much so to the point.

As far as the Chinese thread goes, the US didnt become a nuclear navy overnight it took along time for it to all work out. It will take the Chinese a long time as well given the fact that they have never constructed an aircraft carrier and the US have been since WWII. China got the carrier/carriers through a front in Hong Kong. When she recieved (both of them since the former Minsk is a museum) the power plant was already removed and in poor shape material wise due to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Not only would China have to rebuild it but also develop a "nuclear solution" as far as propulsion and power wise if she were to consider a nuclear powered vessel, but she would also need to develop a catapult system beit steam or EM powered. Designing, Testing, Developing and Fielding takes years and years and alot of money, cost over runs, setbacks, accidents all come with that not to mention her economy. This is why I stated IMO they wont be ready for this for sometime to come. Not anywhere in the near future, thats for certain. Her present CV in fitting out will only have limited application and her navies logistics are still in their infant stages. It takes more then just ships to have a world class navy, you have to be able to support their operations as well in whatever threatres you wish to operate in.