Thread: Langley seeks third squadron of Raptors

I don't have any kind of "insider info" on this one, but there are associate squadrons also...some of them share airframes but I don't know if all of them do. I know the reserve squadron at Langley shares jets with the 27th and 94th, but there's one in Alaska and one in Hawaii...I don't know if they have their own planes or not.

Otherwise it sounds about right.

I really do hope that they go ahead and decide that it is worth the money to upgrade all of the combat coded fleet to block 35.

USAF debates major upgrade for F-22 Raptors
By Stephen Trimble

The US Air Force has confirmed to Flight International that a decision is pending on whether to launch a major upgrade for 63 of its Lockheed Martin F-22s.

Although the decision will be made internally within a few months, the service will wait to publicise the outcome until the Obama administration releases its fiscal year 2012 budget request next February.

Under review is a proposal to upgrade nearly half of the USAF's fleet of 186 operational F-22s with a suite of advanced new weapons that have entered service during the last few years, plus advanced communications equipment that is still in development.

The proposal comes after the Department of Defense decided to terminate F-22 production in early 2012. As part of that decision, it accepted a USAF proposal to spend $1.3 billion on a "common configuration programme", which is consolidating six different versions of the F-22 into three basic types.



© Billypix


For the training and test fleet, the USAF is upgrading 37 Block 10 F-22s, which include two types of production-representative test vehicles, to the Block 20 standard. This includes a new central integrated processor, eliminating an older software configuration that proved unreliable in operational tests nearly a decade ago.

Under the common configuration plan, the combat-coded F-22 fleet is separated into groups of 63 Block 30 and 87 Block 35 aircraft.

The Block 30s are being upgraded with Increment 3.1 capabilities, which include air-to-ground and electronic attack modes for the Northrop Grumman APG-77 radar.

Meanwhile, the Block 35s will also be modernised with the USAF's most advanced air-to-air weapons - the Raytheon AIM-120D AMRAAM and AIM-9X Sidewinder. The package, named Increment 3.2, also adds an automatic ground collision avoidance system and the multifunction advanced datalink. The latter will allow the F-22 to transmit data to other stealth aircraft.

USAF officials are now debating whether to upgrade the 63 Block 30 aircraft to the Block 35 standard. If the proposal is accepted, the USAF would operate a fleet of 150 F-22s with identical capabilities.

But the Raptor fleet would still lack a number of features common to most modern fighters, including an infrared search and track sensor for passive targeting and a helmet-mounted cueing system to shoot at targets beyond the field of view of the fighter's air-to-air missiles.

It is possible, however, that the USAF will add new capabilities to the F-22 beyond the Increment 3.2 upgrades. One example is a distributed aperture system now installed on the Lockheed Martin F-35, which provides 360° optical coverage around the aircraft.

According to Jim Pitts, president of Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems, the USAF is likely to be interested in adopting the system on other aircraft as pilots become familiar with its capabilities.

Not to hijack this thread again, but here's a comparison of the overall tactical jet force structure of the USAF over the last decade.

1999 Aircraft

A-10 368
F-15 527
F-15E 204
F-16 1,431
F--22 2
F-117 56

2004 Aircraft

A-10 357
F-15 511
F-15E 222
F-16 1,348
F--22 27
F-117 55

2009 Aircraft

A-10 355
F-15 367
F-15E 221
F-16 1,156
F--22 141
F-117 0

Totals - 1999: 2,588; 3004:2,520; 2009: 2,240

Please also note that I believe the USAF has retired between 250-260 tactical fighters in 2010, so the the current number is probably close to 2,000. Interesting to see how the changes have effected the individual fleets. The massive draw down of the F-15 force catches my eye. Also, I believe the USAF no longer operate any F-15A/B or F-16A/B aircraft.

Does anyone know why the OA-10 designation was used for a portion of the fleet during the 90's and early 2000's?

I was giving some thought today about the situation the USAF is in. Why don't they cut their F-35A buy from 1,763 aircraft to about 900? This would allow them to replace all current active squadrons who operate the F-15C and F-16C with the F-35A. At the same time, you would be in a position to replace the aircraft operated by guard and reserve squadrons (the guard in particular is screaming for new airframes as I understand it) with about 200 F-15E's and 400 F-16C's. It would totally replace their current fleets, and provide them with brand new airframes that will last them 30+ years. The best part of this option is that is gives you flexibility on delivery dates. You don't have to rush delivery of the F-35A and you can replace the airframes in the worse condition first.

Granted, this will increase the individual price of the F-35A, and probably all F-35's, but not really by that much (unless your including development costs). However, this plan will easily get the USAF to about the year 2040 with a great fleet and a combination of assets. 187 F-22A, 900 F-35A, 420 F-15E, 400 F-16C, and 350 A-10's. Who's gonna touch that? Between now and 2040 I'd start designing a FB-23 type plane that can replace the capabilities of both the F-15E and B-1B. I didn't include the A-10 in the replacement plans because really, what's CAN replace it. Start worrying about that in about 2020, but like most, I'm pretty sure the F-35 is not really well suited for that role.

I realize that the USAF is dead set on buying new 4th generation fighters, and I understand the reasons for that. I just seems to me they have to face some facts, and this seems a reasonable way for them to still get a large number of 5th generation fighters while completely recapitalizing their tactical combat force.

Originally Posted by JA Boomer

Does anyone know why the OA-10 designation was used for a portion of the fleet during the 90's and early 2000's?

My understanding is that the USAF was looking for a way to justify keeping their A-10 fleet flying, while finding a relevant role for them; the way around this was to designate a certain portion of the original A-10 fleet as "observer" (i.e.: FAC) aircraft, and leave the rest in their original role. However, the A-10 once again "proved" itself in the skies over Afghanistan and Iraq, and all pretense of "saving" the A-10 fleet was dropped; the USAF began converting (with Congress' blessing) A-10A's into A-10C's as fast as they could. IMHO, the A-10 is probably the most useful a/c in the USAF inventory at this stage of the game; I love the F-22 to death (just look at my avatar), and it's capabilities are second-to-none, but at this point it really has no competitors (which, I suppose, is the general idea) and, therefore, no real mission (I'm sure Jimmy will argue me on this point).

Originally Posted by Stitch

My understanding is that the USAF was looking for a way to justify keeping their A-10 fleet flying, while finding a relevant role for them; the way around this was to designate a certain portion of the original A-10 fleet as "observer" (i.e.: FAC) aircraft, and leave the rest in their original role. However, the A-10 once again "proved" itself in the skies over Afghanistan and Iraq, and all pretense of "saving" the A-10 fleet was dropped; the USAF began converting (with Congress' blessing) A-10A's into A-10C's as fast as they could.

Well now that makes perfect sense, thanks for shedding some light on that Stitch. It's funny how the A-10 has proven itself to be a remarkable aircraft in every combat theater it has been deployed, yet the people in charge seem to have a short/selective memory of this. If I recall correctly the USAF thought about retiring the A-10's before its performance in Desert Storm, similar to the situation you mention above prior to Iraqi/Enduring Freedom. It's a real shame too, just let the Warhog do its job!

Originally Posted by Stitch

My understanding is that the USAF was looking for a way to justify keeping their A-10 fleet flying, while finding a relevant role for them; the way around this was to designate a certain portion of the original A-10 fleet as "observer" (i.e.: FAC) aircraft, and leave the rest in their original role. However, the A-10 once again "proved" itself in the skies over Afghanistan and Iraq, and all pretense of "saving" the A-10 fleet was dropped; the USAF began converting (with Congress' blessing) A-10A's into A-10C's as fast as they could. IMHO, the A-10 is probably the most useful a/c in the USAF inventory at this stage of the game; I love the F-22 to death (just look at my avatar), and it's capabilities are second-to-none, but at this point it really has no competitors (which, I suppose, is the general idea) and, therefore, no real mission (I'm sure Jimmy will argue me on this point).

I'm hoping someone sets this straight if it's wrong, but I think the OA-10 designation means the pilot is FAC-A qualified.

I'd argue that the F-22s dominance over any would-be competitors IS it's mission. US military doctrine is not parity with a potential enemy, and airpower is no different.