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Reply With QuoteIf i'm not mistaken, the Knaapo made MKV is a generally inferior aircraft in A2A. I think the Chinese first ordered these (the MK2) for PLAN. So their primary role would be AShW, not A2A.
purely becuase i'm interested, and in no way related to a Venezuelan buffoon sticking his nose into other peoples business and no doubt stirring things up to the discomfort of the two main parties, could the more aeronautically minded posters amongst us give an indication of the relative strengths and weaknesses of these two platforms and how they might perform against each other in the various ranges of A2A combat..?
in addition, could they possibly outline the SU-30MKV's strike/interdiction/AShW capability?
cheers.
before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
If i'm not mistaken, the Knaapo made MKV is a generally inferior aircraft in A2A. I think the Chinese first ordered these (the MK2) for PLAN. So their primary role would be AShW, not A2A.
Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory
I recall those diagrams from Carlo Kopp, which doesn't mean much at all.
edit: whoa...this is weird...I saw the diagrams, posted my reply, all before the diagrams are posted...
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
some nice drawings...
.. and some bad numbers (well, I spent 30 mins with Mr. G and try to collect as much as I could. Didn't cross check them.)
Normal take-off
EF-2K: 17,000 kg
Su-30MK: 24,900 kg
MTOW
EF-2K: 23,500 kg
Su-30MK: 38,800 kg
Internal Fuel
EF-2K: 5,000 kg
Su-30MK: 9,640 kg
Maximal Payload
EF-2K: 7,500 kg
Su-30MK: 8,000 kg
Maximal Speed, 11,000 m
EF-2K: 2.00 Mach
Su-30MK: 2.00 Mach
Climb rate
EF-2K: 315 m/sec, sea-level
Su-30MK: 300m/s
Operational Altitude
EF-2K: 65,000 fts
Su-30MK: 56,800 fts
Ferry range
EF-2K: 2,600 km (Internal Fuel)
Su-30MK: 5,000 km (Internal Fuel), 8,000km with refueling
Normal upper G-limit
EF-2K: 9G
Su-30MK: 9G
Take-off with standard A-A configuration
EF-2K: 228 ~ 275 m Emergency take-off to 457 m Normal take-off.
Su-30MK: 550m Normal take-off.
Landing
EF-2K: 500 to 700 m
Su-30MK: 750 m with parachute
Radar's range
EF-2K: Tracking target of RCS = 5 m2 at the range of 160 ~ 185 km away --> Detecting target of RCS = 3m2 at the range of 200 to 272 km away
Su-30MK: Tracking 200km, Searching 350km, 60km in the rear
Maximal horizontal scanning angle of Radar
EF-2K: +/- 70 degrees
Su-30MK: +/- 60 degrees
Capability of multiple target engagement
EF-2K: Tracking 20 and engagine 6 to 8.
Su-30MK: Tracking 15 and engagine 4 to 6.
RCS
EF-2K: 1m2
Su-30MK: 10m2
There's something wrong with the clock. Your post is ..1 hour older than mine.Originally Posted by gunnut
I recall those diagrams from Carlo Kopp, which doesn't mean much at all.
edit: whoa...this is weird...I saw the diagrams, posted my reply, all before the diagrams are posted...
uh... Whats the IRST's Detection and Tracking Range on the Su-30?
How can it Possibly be greater than the Aim-120's engagement range???
Why the pure essence of distilled Russian awesomeness, of course!uh... Whats the IRST's Detection and Tracking Range on the Su-30?
How can it Possibly be greater than the Aim-120's engagement range???
USNA 2014?
i take it then those diagrams are shite..?
do we think the RCS figures that hanswu25 managed to find are reliable? if so, thats a pretty massive difference... assuming they were reliable, or that their 'relativism' was kind of correct, what would be the real life performances of the systems on each aircraft?
before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
Dave I think your on the money. Again I'd defer to Highsea for some fierce criticism, but that looks like some Anti Hornet/JSF propaganda from Carlo Kopp.
To be taken with a pinch of salt and extra vanilla beans with copious amounts of alcohol to make the west quiver to it's knees. All hail the might Sukhoi!
(BTW are you a member of WAB's closet Putin admirers club World Affairs Board - Пу́тин Lovers on WAB )
Ego Numquam
Carlo Kopp.......
LOL, do we really need to beat the dead horse?Kopp is a joke
“the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson
Because the Su-30MKK's Zhuk-MSE radar the PLAAF ordered sucks big time when it comes to A2A. After some loud complaints, the Russian offered the improved Mk3 with the N-011M Bars radar to the PLAAF and thanks but no thanks.
Those first batch of SU-30MKK is now converted into "blue army" sqd for training purpose.
Last edited by xinhui; 24 Feb 10, at 19:12.
“the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson
The MK2 is more advance than MKK. And is China still begging for Su-33?
As a Plan-B for i'ts J-15 Project -- China wants to buy only four birds, the Russian won't sale anything less than 24.
“the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson
Actually why should they sell anything less than a squadron..they have not opened a charity for countries to copy their designs..they'd let them copy only if they get some considerable money in return..so nothing less than a squadron
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