SU-30MKV vs EF Typhoon...

**Stitch** · 25 Feb 10,, 19:41

Originally Posted by Zaitsev

Actually why should they sell anything less than a squadron..they have not opened a charity for countries to copy their designs

..they'd let them copy only if they get some considerable money in return..so nothing less than a squadron

That's why China only wants four; just enough to be able to reverse-engineer it.

**hanswu25** · 25 Feb 10,, 19:52

I don't know how much Russia asks China for Su-33. The price for each Su-30MK2 is 50 mils USD without weapons and let's say the price for Su-33 is more than less the same. 24 fighters will cost 1.2 billion. It is not a big number if China really want those birds. Perhaps Russia doesn't want to sell.

**n21** · 25 Feb 10,, 21:27

Originally Posted by xinhui

As a Plan-B for i'ts J-15 Project -- China wants to buy only four birds, the Russian won't sale anything less than 24.

Didn't the Chinese earlier had plans to buy the South African attack chopper, apparently just 1 is what I have read!

I have to give to the Chinese. They are very clear what they want and let everyone know!

Anyways off-topic.

**Chunder** · 26 Feb 10,, 08:29

Originally Posted by xinhui

Carlo Kopp.......

LOL, do we really need to beat the dead horse?

Kopp is a joke

Aww C'mon now, when are you going to come out of the closet and admit deep seated admiration for his doctoral highness?

**highsea** · 26 Feb 10,, 19:49

highness is right. I wonder what that guy smokes.

I like how in all his cartoons, it's either F-35 or F-18 getting waxed.

Back to the OP, I haven't seen any credible lists of what the FAV actually got with their Flankers, so who knows? If they have KH-31 there's a potential threat to shipping, naturally.

It really boils down to training and quality of the aircrews, and how well they will be able to maintain the birds. They don't have much in the way of supporting assets, and air combat isn't conducted on a X vs. Y airframe basis, it's about systems. If they don't have the capability to employ them, they're just hanger queens and airshow displays.

**hanswu25** · 26 Feb 10,, 20:49

From SIPRI. It is still unclear they have Kh-31A antiship or Kh-31P anti-radiation (anti AWACS).

Russia 3 Mi-24P/Mi-35P/Hind-F Combat helicopter 2005 2006 3 Part of $120 m deal; Mi-35M-2 version; Venezuelan designation Caribe
5 Mi-24P/Mi-35P/Hind-F Combat helicopter 2005 2006 5 Mi-35M-2 version; $81 m deal; Venezuelan designation Caribe
1 Mi-26/Halo Helicopter 2005 2007 1 Part of $120 m deal; Mi-26T2 version; Venezuelan designation Pemon
(6) Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H Helicopter 2005 2006 (6) Part of $120 m deal; Mi-17-1V armed version; Venezuelan designation Panare
(200) KAB-500/1500 Guided Bomb (2006) 2007-2008 (200) KAB-500 and KAB-1500 version
(50) Kh-29/AS-14 Kedge ASM 2006 2008 (50) For SU-30MK combat aircraft
(50) Kh-31A1/AS-17 Anti-ship missile (2006) 2008 (50) Kh-31P version; for Su-30MK combat aircraft
(50) Kh-59ME/AS-18 Kazoo ASM 2006 2008 (50) For SU-30MK combat aircraft
2 Mi-24P/Mi-35P/Hind-F Combat helicopter 2006 2007 (2)
2 Mi-26/Halo Helicopter 2006 2007-2008 2 Mi-26T2 version; Venezuelan designation Pemon
(14) Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H Helicopter 2006 2006-2007 (14) Mi-17-1V armed version; Venezuelan designation Panare
(18) Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H Helicopter (2006) 2008 (18) Part of $484 m deal; Mi-17-1V armed version; Venezuelan designation Panare
(100) R-27/AA-10 Alamo BVRAAM 2006 2007-2008 (100) For Su-30MKV combat aircraft
(150) R-73/AA-11 Archer SRAAM 2006 2006-2008 (150) For Su-30MKV combat aircraft
24 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2006 2006-2008 (24) $0.8-1.5 b deal; Su-30MKV (Su-30MK-2) version

**highsea** · 26 Feb 10,, 22:35

Originally Posted by hanswu25

From SIPRI. It is still unclear they have Kh-31A antiship or Kh-31P anti-radiation (anti AWACS).

Database says ARM version.

Not anti-AWACS- too short legged. Anti-ship and ground-based IADS.

No active AAM's, just SARH and IR.

Not enough armament to sustain more than a couple days of combat, but enough to chase away any neighbors that stray too close.

Nothing scary there, we've been in posession of all that stuff for years.

**dave angel** · 28 Feb 10,, 21:43

so while SU-30MKV is a capable airfame - in that it can go fast, carry a decent payload a long way and be reasonably manouverable in a WVR contact - in terms of its weapons and systems its not a serious potential threat to the Typhoon force on the Islands?

i'm assuming that in terms of context, any such contact would be under an E-3D AWACS umbrella with significantly more Typhoon on the Islands than at present - given that to operate SU-30MKV against the Islands, the VAF would have to sort out all manner of logistic and support issues for deployment to an Argentine AB, and that such preperations would generate sufficient noise to twig the UK's interest and re-inforce the current force structure...

**BenRoethig** · 28 Feb 10,, 22:17

If the Typhoon pilots buy into that, they're dead. First off, a superior pilot in an inferior aircraft will almost always beat an inferior pilot in a superior aircraft. Second, the 30MKV isn't all that inferior.

**cr9527** · 28 Feb 10,, 23:33

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

If the Typhoon pilots buy into that, they're dead. First off, a superior pilot in an inferior aircraft will almost always beat an inferior pilot in a superior aircraft. Second, the 30MKV isn't all that inferior.

Well.. If you have the Red Baron in an Su-27 and a rookie in an F-22, Im not sure the odds of Red Baron surviving is all that great.

Secondly, Im pretty sure Current Typhoons are similar to MKVs, at least in terms of capabilities.

S2 · 01 Mar 10,, 01:11

Tanker support to make the flight or do they puddle-hop their way through S. America? Is there some hint that the Argies are getting an itch for another go?

What if the British government just offered to make each Falklander a millionaire to become Argie provided they all accepted? Why don't you just let Buenos Aires know that the next go-around means nukes as you're damned tired of the nonsense?

The Queen has options.

**GGTharos** · 01 Mar 10,, 02:44

Originally Posted by cr9527

Well.. If you have the Red Baron in an Su-27 and a rookie in an F-22, Im not sure the odds of Red Baron surviving is all that great.

And this is exactly what has happened in training. F-22's can carry pods to make them radar-visible, and when faced with more experienced F-15 pilots (in greater number, no less) they could and would lose.

Take the pods off, the F-22's would win just like that - that is how much of an advantage these things have.

Secondly, Im pretty sure Current Typhoons are similar to MKVs, at least in terms of capabilities.

They're better. I have no idea why MKVs are touted as anything but a Su-30 upgrade. Their upgreadability has limits which the Typhoon is not bound to.

**dave angel** · 01 Mar 10,, 08:43

Originally Posted by S-2

Tanker support to make the flight or do they puddle-hop their way through S. America? Is there some hint that the Argies are getting an itch for another go?

What if the British government just offered to make each Falklander a millionaire to become Argie provided they all accepted? Why don't you just let Buenos Aires know that the next go-around means nukes as you're damned tired of the nonsense?

The Queen has options.

the Argies are getting itchy about the FI again - theres a drilling rig in FI waters and the Argentines are having another economic crisis (well, it is Monday...).

at last weeks South America summit in Mexico the Argies went looking for diplomatic support on the issue - got it, though quite how much that means.... - and Oooohgo Chavez made noise about 'military support' for the recovery of 'las Malvinas'.

he later slightly amended this to 'military support in the event of Britain invading Argentina' (yeah, because that was always on the cards!), but its not the first time he's indicated his alleged willingness to give the Argentines military support - doubtless as part of a pan-South American force under his mightly leadership - on this issue.

the UK and Argentina had 'talks about talks' in the late 70's/early 80's, and significant compensation for the Islanders was on the table, the Islanders got wind of it and went ballistic - for some bizaare reason they decided that they didn't want to be foreigners living under a kleptocratic, nationalistic dictatorship with several million % inflation and students being thrown out of helicopters!

the local media down there run polls fairly regularly, i doubt that less than 2% would accept money either to become argentine or be relocated to the UK...

**Chunder** · 01 Mar 10,, 09:19

Originally Posted by dave angel

, i doubt that less than 2% would accept money either to become argentine or be relocated to the UK...

Thats if the infamous episode of stripping Islanders in the Atlantic of their British passports has well and truly been crushed. I mean to say, in politics, the British are one of the few gutless nations of the 20th century to actually strip citizens of their own citizenship rights to the UK natural born or not without consent, for the mere fact they lived on an island in the Atlantic. When was that to? Late 80's till Mid 90's when it got reversed wasn't it? (fuzzy memory)

**dave angel** · 01 Mar 10,, 09:33

Originally Posted by Chunder

Thats if the infamous episode of stripping Islanders in the Atlantic of their British passports has well and truly been crushed. I mean to say, in politics, the British are one of the few gutless nations of the 20th century to actually strip citizens of their own citizenship rights to the UK natural born or not without consent, for the mere fact they lived on an island in the Atlantic. When was that to? Late 80's till Mid 90's when it got reversed wasn't it? (fuzzy memory)

it was after the war, not long after either.

it simply could not happen in the current - and forseeable - political climate, the FI war of 82 changed the political landscape in that regard.

any minister who suggested it would be out of a job by tea-time, and any government that wanted to put it through parliament would lose heavily and would probably face a no-confidence motion.

it was a disgisting practice, but it'll not be happening again.