+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 55

Thread: Can AESA be jammed?

  1. #1
    Banned Contributor
    Join Date
    16 Mar 09
    Location
    Charleston SC
    Posts
    350
    Country: United States

    Can AESA be jammed?

    Can AESA be jammed?

  2. #2
    Staff Emeritus
    Military Professional
    Contrary by Nature.
    zraver's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Oct 06
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    9,269
    Country: United States
    Not in any useful way, because each segment can operate on it own freq and hop freqs so fast you'd never be able to pin them all down. Trying to jsut brute force the entire spectrum would degrade your own assets and still might not work if the AESA's computers could filter out the non-coded noise.

  3. #3
    NUS
    NUS is offline
    Contributor NUS's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Aug 08
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by KRON1 View Post
    Can AESA be jammed?
    Yes.

  4. #4
    NUS
    NUS is offline
    Contributor NUS's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Aug 08
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Not in any useful way, because each segment can operate on it own freq and hop freqs so fast you'd never be able to pin them all down. Trying to jsut brute force the entire spectrum would degrade your own assets and still might not work if the AESA's computers could filter out the non-coded noise.
    This "entire spectrum" is in fact very narrow for any useful application. And signal coding is useless if signal/noise ratio is almost zero.

    Also, several unjammed antenna modules are useless. You need a lot of them to work - 100's of them.

  5. #5
    Ex-Wabber Defense Professional
    Join Date
    10 Dec 04
    Posts
    7,029
    Country: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by KRON1 View Post
    Can AESA be jammed?
    Not with today's technology.

  6. #6
    Contributor
    Join Date
    26 Mar 09
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by NUS View Post
    This "entire spectrum" is in fact very narrow for any useful application. And signal coding is useless if signal/noise ratio is almost zero.

    Also, several unjammed antenna modules are useless. You need a lot of them to work - 100's of them.
    I believe what he meant was even if one jams the entire spectrum, that effectively kills your own equipment as well.

  7. #7
    Reformed Kiwi Military Professional
    Join Date
    03 Nov 08
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    694
    Country: Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by cr9527 View Post
    I believe what he meant was even if one jams the entire spectrum, that effectively kills your own equipment as well.
    If you had worse equipment in the first place that is a win, especially if you operate non-stealthy types while the AESA operator has stealth fighters (as is likely to be the case).

  8. #8
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    02 Mar 08
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    1,542
    Country: Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Agboz View Post
    If you had worse equipment in the first place that is a win, especially if you operate non-stealthy types while the AESA operator has stealth fighters (as is likely to be the case).
    Against a Western force it is a massive fail.

    Not to mention that

    a)the technology needs to actually be developed beyond theory
    b)AESA is definitely not exclusive to 'stealth fighters'.
    c)Said technology has to actually be put into practice, put on a platform, operationally tested, fielded in numbers, etc etc.
    Last edited by Chunder; 11 Jan 10, at 13:47.
    Ego Numquam

  9. #9
    NUS
    NUS is offline
    Contributor NUS's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Aug 08
    Posts
    414
    I believe what he meant was even if one jams the entire spectrum, that effectively kills your own equipment as well.
    Do you know how the jammers looks like? It's not so much differs from radar and jammer beam can be directed just like radar beam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    a)the technology needs to actually be developed beyond theory

    c)Said technology has to actually be put into practice, put on a platform, operationally tested, fielded in numbers, etc etc.
    What technology? AESA was in extensive use since 1960's. Do you really think nothing was developed since then to counter it? In best case all you need to do is to rewrite a software for new types of radar.

    Look, AESA is not something new or totally magical. It has it's problems too. For example, current problems with thermal stabilization of AESA modules in airborn radars makes most theoretical advantages of AESA only theoretical possibility unreachable in practice.

    You guys are so brainwashed by Lockheed marketing it's not even funny.

  10. #10
    Reformed Kiwi Military Professional
    Join Date
    03 Nov 08
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    694
    Country: Australia
    [QUOTE=Chunder;708460]Against a Western force it is a massive fail.[QUOTE]

    How so? A non-AESA equipped force fighting against Western force with non-stealthy AESA equipped fighters like the upgraded F-15C's or the later model F-18E is likely to lose anyway, because the Western fighters can see, identify and hit before the enemy can. The situation would be even worse against a stealthy fighter like the F-22. However, if the non-AESA equipped force jams their radars they have to fight WVR. That would even the odds enormously, even if the non AESA radars are jammed in the process. If the non-AESA force operates IRST and IR missiles capable of BVR shots equipped fighters, as are the latest SU-30's or the Eurocanards, then they would actually be at an advantage against the AESA equipped aircraft.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    Not to mention that

    a)the technology needs to actually be developed beyond theory
    b)AESA is definitely not exclusive to 'stealth fighters'.
    c)Said technology has to actually be put into practice, put on a platform, operationally tested, fielded in numbers, etc etc.
    We are only talking about barrage jamming which has been around for eons. Basically it involves an EW platform transmitting across the entire spectrum that the enemy radar operates on. The Russians have built offensive jammers for their own use previously and the Russian scientific institute KNIRTI is now marketing an offensive jammer system for the SU-XX series called the SAP-14. I don't have the details of its capabilities but I would be very surprised if it didn't include barrage jamming. So, it seems to me that the only real step left in your list is for customers such as China and India to buy the jammers in numbers.

    See links for more info.

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...2-3004eb28a9aa

    Jammers help keepRussian fighters alive: AINonline

  11. #11
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    02 Mar 08
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    1,542
    Country: Australia
    AG, your misinterpreting what I said, you need to re-read the post in it's context. It assumes the Jamming force is equal to the detection capabilities that the opponent has at their disposal. By Jamming all frequencies, especially against expeditionary forces you actually make objective targets easier to hit. Highsea has considerable background knowledge on jamming so I'd defer to him.
    Last edited by Chunder; 12 Jan 10, at 12:13.
    Ego Numquam

  12. #12
    Reformed Kiwi Military Professional
    Join Date
    03 Nov 08
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    694
    Country: Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    AG, your misinterpreting what I said, you need to re-read the post in it's context. It assumes the Jamming force is equal to the detection capabilities that the opponent has at their disposal. By Jamming all frequencies, especially against expeditionary forces you actually make objective targets easier to hit.
    Sorry, you'll have to explain what you mean a bit more clearly.

  13. #13
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    02 Mar 08
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    1,542
    Country: Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussiegunner View Post
    Sorry, you'll have to explain what you mean a bit more clearly.
    Mate, there is no way in hell reducing the effectiveness of any AESA equipped fighter comparative to legacy platforms increases your effectiveness.

    You are now fighting blind, against a force that knows where it's going and what it wants to bomb, and more than likely has the tech to find the jamming source.
    Ego Numquam

  14. #14
    Reformed Kiwi Military Professional
    Join Date
    03 Nov 08
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    694
    Country: Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    AG, your misinterpreting what I said, you need to re-read the post in it's context. It assumes the Jamming force is equal to the detection capabilities that the opponent has at their disposal. By Jamming all frequencies, especially against expeditionary forces you actually make objective targets easier to hit. Highsea has considerable background knowledge on jamming so I'd defer to him.
    Ok, having thought about it I think that I understand that you are suggesting that the defending force would only succeed in jamming their own equipment (SAM radars etc), while not achieving anything with respect to the opposing force. Is this correct?

    My understanding is that a basic jammer works the same way as I am if I hold the transmit button down on my CB radio, all other radios on the same frequency within range can't operate because my signal interferes with their operation. I know that there are other techniques that are used like sending back timed signals to create false images, but I think that what I describe is the basic theory of the way a jammer operates. With a barrage jammer the equipment transmits across the entire range of frequencies that the opposing radar does. What I don't understand and which I am very happy to be corrected on in detail, is why an AESA radar can't be jammed in this fashion. Do they operate on a different range of frequencies than other radars? That is the only possible explanation that I can come up with.

  15. #15
    Reformed Kiwi Military Professional
    Join Date
    03 Nov 08
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    694
    Country: Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    Mate, there is no way in hell reducing the effectiveness of any AESA equipped fighter comparative to legacy platforms increases your effectiveness.

    You are now fighting blind, against a force that knows where it's going and what it wants to bomb, and more than likely has the tech to find the jamming source.
    As indicated I thought that was what you were saying, but I'd still appreciate a technical answer on why AESA radars can't be jammed with barrage jamming.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. LCA beats F-16
    By Mr_Vastu in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 150
    Last Post: 02 Sep 09,, 21:59
  2. AESA v/s PESA
    By Gokul in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 13 Feb 09,, 19:07
  3. F-15E AESA winner
    By HKDan in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 19 Nov 07,, 00:24
  4. Super Hornet AESA troubles
    By HKDan in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03 Feb 07,, 15:57
  5. AESA vs Phased Array Radar?
    By The_Burning_Kid in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 02 Jan 06,, 11:03

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts