India rejects Dassault bid for MRCA

**Stan** · 18 Apr 09, 13:06

If its politics that play a role. Deal with the largest economy in the world ... Europe.

**diablo49** · 18 Apr 09, 18:51

I personally can't accept grouping the economies of Europe's various countries until they actually become one country. If we are talking about countries that have a stake in the typhoon, wouldn't that be the UK(germany as well?)? Just basing this on the fact that the gripen and Rafale were contenders as well...

**Kommunist** · 18 Apr 09, 21:39

If India goes for the superhornet, what kind of weapon systems will likely be needed by India along with it?

For A2A, India currently uses R-77, R-73, RVV-AE, R-27, Matra Magic II, Magic Super 530, Derby and Astra (future), etc which most likely are not compatible with the SH. So does India have the possibility of acquiring the AIM-120D and AIM-9X from the US, if SH is selected?

**BenRoethig** · 18 Apr 09, 22:11

Originally Posted by Kommunist

If India goes for the superhornet, what kind of weapon systems will likely be needed by India along with it?

For A2A, India currently uses R-77, R-73, RVV-AE, R-27, Matra Magic II, Magic Super 530, Derby and Astra (future), etc which most likely are not compatible with the SH. So does India have the possibility of acquiring the AIM-120D and AIM-9X from the US, if SH is selected?

Super Hornet is hardware compatible (some may require software updates) with
Short range
AIM-9
AIM-9x
ASRAAM
IRIS-T
Magic
Python
Medium Range
AMRAAM
Meteor
Derby
Mica (RF version for sure, IR version may be too heavy for wingtip rails as its ~20-25KG heavier than other IR missiles)

**Sumku** · 18 Apr 09, 22:12

Originally Posted by bolo121

Actually i think they meant minimum bribe requirement.
Maybe they didn't splurge as much as the others on the defense ministry officials?

I guess we need to be a little bit more carefull about labelling cheap accusations at the drop of the hat.What I am hearing is that one the reasons cited is because its considered too expensive.

BTW, except France how many other AF's are flying that thing? Answer is 0. Why? There is something seriously wrong with that plance - starting with price.

**Sumku** · 18 Apr 09, 22:17

Originally Posted by jlvfr

No ofense, but I smell politics at work...

Can you please explain why you wrote so?

To me if its about politics, then Rafale has a better chance than Gripen-which ironically has not been rejected yet. Why?

If politics is in play here, then Mig-35 has the best chance. No?

**Kommunist** · 18 Apr 09, 22:19

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

Super Hornet is hardware compatible (some may require software updates) with
Short range
AIM-9
AIM-9x
ASRAAM
IRIS-T
Magic
Python
Medium Range
AMRAAM
Meteor
Derby
Mica (RF version for sure, IR version may be too heavy for wingtip rails as its ~20-25KG heavier than other IR missiles)

I was speculating/questioning whether India would have a chance/permission to get them.

**Kommunist** · 18 Apr 09, 22:25

Originally Posted by Sumku

I guess we need to be a little bit more carefull about labelling cheap accusations at the drop of the hat.What I am hearing is that one the reasons cited is because its considered too expensive.

BTW, except France how many other AF's are flying that thing? Answer is 0. Why? There is something seriously wrong with that plance - starting with price.

Rafale C - €64 million/US$82.3mil
EF 2000 - GB£68.9mil/€77.7mil/US$102.532mil

It does not seem to me that there is corruption involved.
However, whatever the reason may be, it is not likely cost. In that case, EF-2000 would have been rejected before the Rafale.

Sumku, DNAIndia is not a very good, reliable and unbiased source IMO.

**Sumku** · 18 Apr 09, 22:26

Originally Posted by Deltacamelately

This toss of the coin has Lockheed Martin and Boeing written on the its 2 sides.

Sir, I thought the toss up was between Mig-35 and SH.
With F-16IN, its like buying a car that is no longer produced.

**Sumku** · 18 Apr 09, 22:31

Originally Posted by jlvfr

Just thought of something: India has been watching the US becoming friendlier and friendlier with Pakistan,

No offence meant but India has watched US getting friendlier with Pakistan since 1947 - from the days of Seato.

I question, US-Pakistan were more closer before or today.
Was US carrying out Drone Attacks on Pakistan in '65, '71? Therein lies your answer's to your questions

**Sumku** · 18 Apr 09, 22:33

Originally Posted by Kommunist

IMHO, the chances of SH just increased exponentially. Now, it should be the SH or Mig-35, or a 35-65 split between the two.

No. There's not going to be split. Whoever gets it ... takes it all

**Sumku** · 18 Apr 09, 22:37

Originally Posted by nebula82

The Gripen is a good aircraft but does it have the track record of the F-16 & F-18?

No

Originally Posted by nebula82

What is the possibility that the chosen aircraft will be made in India under a licensed production agreement? If something like this is done I think it'll only happen if a further batch of aircraft is ordered.

Yes. Not all of 126 would come to India all assembled. The first batch would come assembled, then some in SKDK and then the rest[Majority] would be assembled would be made under license in India. And yes, MMRCA is for 126 but that was sometime back, IAF's fleet strength has since been depleted further so yes, there would be a hike in the number that we are looking at.

If confirmed reports are to be believed, it would be closer to 200.

**~~mean_bird~~** · 18 Apr 09, 22:38

Originally Posted by nebula82

T
The Gripen is a good aircraft but does it have the track record of the F-16 & F-18?

a track record of what? fighting against the cutting edge technologies coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Gripen would be out of the competition because
1. Its not the best
2. They aren't /cannot offer other products and services for long term strategic relation
3. They are not a major political player

So in my book, they got a 0% chance of winning. They are just doing tourism in India and will learn the lesson soon enough.

**Sumku** · 18 Apr 09, 22:44

Originally Posted by Yusuf

Mind you that all these years we had no one other than Russia to rely on for cheap but good platforms. Now though cost is the criteria, its no the sole criteria.

It still is one of the single most important criteria.
Rafale getting rejected is pointer enough in that direction.Why do you think Rafale got rejected even though the French were practically giving everything - including the sourcecode of their upcoming AESA[as reported not just in Indian media but french and US as well]?

**BenRoethig** · 18 Apr 09, 22:57

Originally Posted by Sumku

I guess we need to be a little bit more carefull about labelling cheap accusations at the drop of the hat.What I am hearing is that one the reasons cited is because its considered too expensive.

BTW, except France how many other AF's are flying that thing? Answer is 0. Why? There is something seriously wrong with that plance - starting with price.

The only think wrong with it is the trademark French arrogance that it comes with. It's a very good plane.

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