killabee

Russian air loses in WW2 are bigger than germans but they won.
USAF did not fight WW2 alone.and they fought german home forces while the streght of LUFTWAFFE was in the est.
With a 3 to 1 supremacy even Brasil would control the sky`s...
US has a numer 1 airforce INDUSTRY and that helpS the job.
Israel has not...

killabee

please explain...

Officer of Engineers

So, let me get this straight. The Germans did not have the control over their skies in the East.

So, let me get this straight. The Germans did not have the control over their skies in the West.

Not worth answering such a stupid scenario.

Since when is war about being fair? Grow Up. You pile it on the enemy. You don't give the guy a chance. You hit him with EVERYTHING you've got and you keep on hitting him until he cries uncle. And Israel got a hell of alot less in EVERY ASPECT including technology and the mastery of that technology than the Americans.

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Chimo

killabee

My point was that LUFTWAFFE did not engage her full strenght against USAF so the succes of usaf in europe should take this in consideration.
The use of american fighters by IAF in combat shows that the israeli airforce has a beter mastery of that technology than the Americans.
Yes, war is not fair and numbers make the diference, but also pilots do...

Archer

Were there Mustangs over Berlin or Messerschmitts over Washington?

Relying on kill scores is the typical mistake most do. In the Allied AF, especially the USAAF, pilots were rotated and sent home after tours, and they racked up high scores in shorter periods. In the Luftwaffe, thanks to the pressure, pilots remained in the seat till they bought the valhalla express. Not to mention that most "aces" knocked up their tall scores against the Russians who were caught off guard and had poor training and equipment early on.
What matters is staying power- the USAAF dominated the air, they sent fighters deep into Germany all the way from the UK, and escorted their bombers which struck again and again and again. They were the clear victors.
No doubt the Germans fought back as much as they could, but if theres a victor, its the USAAF.
And the USAAF also fought against the Japanese.

It was the Germans who were foolish enough not to develop long range bombers and fighters, and they paid the price. Fancy technology is useless unless brought to the fight in sufficient numbers and at the right time. It was the USAAF which had the P-47s, P-51s, P-38s to escort the B-17s, B-24s, B-25s, B-26s and in the far east, the B-29s. Compare and contrast to the Luftwaffe, which for all its wunderweapons, persevered with the obsolete Stuka, could not rationalise its heavy fighter procurement and had junk for long range bombing. Its Me series fighters were too little too late.

The USAAF had a plan, and they implemented it, bombing Germany to smithereens. And the Luftwaffe couldnt stop them.
After DDay, Allied troops also had air superiority thanks to the USAAF and the RAF and the other nations. Again, the Luftwaffe couldnt stop them.

So who is the victor?

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Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu

My bow is stretched for its task

Archer

Semantics. War is never fair. The Luftwaffe threw what it had into the fight, and if they had put their full force, America would have thrown 3X that number as well. It was not subject to a strategic campaign either. So you tell me, who had the better plan and who won?

The IAF has had opponents who punch below their weight. The USAF prepared for WWIII, not the uber fighter jock tactical battles the Israelis excelled in. And American pilots can be every bit as good as Israeli ones, this is just internet hubris that Israelis are the best etc.

Technology? You have to be kidding!! Who made those fighters?? The US!!
Who owns the technology for the most hard parts- like the engine?? The US!!
Who makes the most advanced fighter in the world, today- the F22A? The US...

Who can even seriously claim that the Israelis are better than the Americans? The Israelis are competent, and make good stuff, but the US is by far the leader when it comes to overall ability!!

Jimmy

Linebacker was one of the most effective air campaigns in history. It was called off because the politicians only allowed it to force North Vietnam to the negotiating table in the first place. We bombed them to the brink of their government collapsing, then the politicians called it off.

killabee

As far as i know usaf did put against luftwaffe every thing they had...
even a number of carriers they did not need in pacific were the navy did most of the fighting.
The russian airforce decimated the luftwaffe not usaf .russian pilots might have been underequipt early in the war but they were far from poorly trained.

killabee

so LINEBAKER was a political mowe...?
just like the rest of the war for that matter cause i cannot see any military reason for it.

Officer of Engineers

Should have remembered the policy. This is a p!ssing contest that serves no purpose other than to praise somebody's ego. Those who do the jobs for real know the real score. Thread locked