Surprises-
SU-30MKI and Mig-21 Bison can jam the non AESA F-15 and F-16's.
We let the French come if all they do is spy.
The mano eh mano the Indian pilots got crushed. I expected a US win, but not a blow out.
The high number of blue on blue kills due to the two different data linking nets.
Not surprising-
Indian Pilots were professional and eager to work and learn
overall the USAF would say the SU-30MKI is better than the F-15
All F-15 models? I thought the upgraded F-15C's (AESA, JTIDS, JHMCS, AIM-9X) did well against the Su-30MKI's?Originally Posted by zraver
videos are gone now
I am assuming non-AESA C models. In the long run the 30MKI has more room to grow than the F-15.
I'm really interested in this "missile jamming" thing. Does this mean US BVR combat strategy is screwed now?
This could have been an issue with exercise rules rather than reality. If jamming was such an issue, why not go to HOJ mode? Why go to guns when you can do AIM-9X? So it could be that for this exercise, the rules stated that jamming would degrade your missile effectiveness by X amount. From the pilot's comments, it wasn't clear whether the jamming would be as much a problem in actual combat.
On the other hand, I believe that the pilot meant what he said about the effectiveness of the jammers on the Bison.
the question is If the bison with it's all metal frame and decidedly non-stealth features body can be nearly invisible to a f-16 what can an LCA with all-composite stealthy body do?
Zraver,
Most the IAF airmans involved were new joiners in the SU-30's. IAF delibrately send younger pilots, since it was a great learning exprience.
IAF went to learn from a large scale air warfare,which was close to real combact, rather than to prove they can "blast USAF out of the skly or they are the bestest of the bestest."
However for the IAF more important was the operational availability of SU-30 in such a far off place,involvement in large scale aircombat specially under AWACS, learning about the weakness of SU-30's in real combact scenarios, which I believe is achieved.
Add to this one of the important aspect is the employment of EW which has made even the Mig-21 Bison a worthy aircraft. This bodes well for the general direction IAF is taking. Now most of it's aircrafts are BVR capable and employ Israel and Indian EW systems,plus it is worth for IAF to invest in Indian LCA, as Bison has proved how a small sized aircraft with all the bells and whistles can be a real trouble.
Can you provide any links/news regarding this jamming thing? Cos AFAIK,
1. The Su-30MKIs operated their N011M radars in training mode, as they didnt want to give its full capability away.
2. The Su-30MKIs were forbidden to use their ECCM/ECM to hide their actual capabilities and this was the reason they got shot down (a lot) by SAMs in the exercises.
[I dont have the link marked as I was not a member to the WAB forum 2 days ago, but I read a US Analyst on a reputed site (article most probably posted F-16.net also)quoting that the Su pilots were flying like "with one hand tied behind their back".]
I think this was an ROE or a handicap scenario and not an actual incident.
(I may be wrong, please correct me if I am)
Everyone has opinions, only some count.
"Only Composites" dont make an aicraft stealthy. Lots of other parameters are there. If that would had been the case, we would have seen all composite body aircraft ages ago.the question is If the bison with it's all metal frame and decidedly non-stealth features body can be nearly invisible to a f-16 what can an LCA with all-composite stealthy body do?
The LCA was designed with some RCS reductions but not for stealth. Also, it may be another 20 years
So until we get any technical/confirmed data regarding the detection/tracking ranges concerned, we are wrong to assume F-16s had problems in detecting the Bisons.
Everyone has opinions, only some count.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...entId=blogDest
has the videos embedded.
The MKIs were flying blind. What IAF learnt from the exercise: Get derated birds specifically for such excercises. The MKIs were flying with seperate datalinks, so they were already hanging out dry from the rest, on top of that, they were flying without their radars, due to the fear of electronic surveillance. So with all the handicaps, the result is not surprising, somewhat like what the Americans faced during Cope-India 04. Now, my question is, what happens when the Phalcons arrives? They would have to build a common datalinks for all Indian birds and the Phalcons; now would that be an Indian, Russian or Western datalink? And how compatible would it be with both Russian and Western if Indian.
btw, the engine issue also needs to be looked at. If we're going to be developing another plane with the Russians, make sure the engine reliability issues which the MKI faces do not find their way onto the new bird.
Last edited by Tronic; 07 Nov 08, at 14:50.
Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory
Videos don't work, have been taken off youtube, zrav. I may have them lying around on my computer; will upload when I get home.
Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WKEa-R37PeU Part 1
part 2 in related videos.
But from other forums i have a general impression about this video being a fake.
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