sohamsri

Never-seen battle in Indian skies (Mig-35 vs Super Hornet)
The Telegraph,India ^ | Monday, February 12, 2007 | ANIL BUDUR LULLA

Posted on 2/11/2007 11:06:41 PM by sukhoi-30mki

Never-seen battle in sky

ANIL BUDUR LULLA

The F/A-18 F Super Hornet and the MiG-35 Bangalore, Feb. 11: A brilliant blue-and-red streak in the sky, the MiG-35 climbs 90 degrees towards the sun, changes its mind and does a vertical U-turn, screaming 90 degrees towards earth. It’s still in one piece.

Moments later, the grey F/A-18 F Super Hornet shoots sunwards like a bullet after a short take-off, levels at 8,000 feet, floats, turns left, shows its dual engines just above the gaping audience, goes into attack mode and swivels — all in one smooth motion.

“It’s like nothing we’ve seen before,” says a defence ministry official who will sit in judgement with a clutch of pilots when the Indian Air Force decides on the aircraft it will settle for in its order of 126 multi-role combat fighters.

The twin-engined MiG-35 and Super Hornet are clearly in a different league. And on the evidence of the demonstrations in Yalahanka, erstwhile Cold War rivals Russia and the US are pulling out all stops.

Boeing’s Michael E. Rietz, the India programme manager for F/A-18F business, says the Hornet boasts of the latest radar. The Electronically Scanned Array (Aesa) radar is also used by the US Navy.

“This is the right aircraft for establishing air dominance. It does not require any platform to support it and carries missiles for its own protection,” he says.

More important, Boeing will let the planes be made under licence in India, a first for the F/A-18 programme.

Asked how the aircraft compares to the MiG-35, Rietz says: “Survivability is the key. While it is a lethal machine, we take pride in the Super Hornets, which avoid being seen, hit and killed.”

The biggest advantage is that the Hornet’s wings can be folded, enabling it to operate from aircraft carriers.

The Russians, on the other hand, are playing on a strong wicket. They never fail to emphasise their 44-year association with India. IAF pilots are familiar with the nuts and bolts of Russian systems.

The MiG-35 also has the Aesa radar specifically made for the Indian programme.

Referred to as the generation 4 ++ aircraft, MiG-35 versions on show here were arguably the most eye-catching.

The Russians rarely fail to advertise the MiG-35’s thrust vector control that allows the aircraft to undertake the breathtaking “cobra” manoeuvre. The aircraft stalls in mid-flight, nose at 90 degrees like a cobra ready to strike, and slides backwards. In a real dogfight, such a move can turn the hunted into the hunter.

Back to the Indian official who will be among those who sit in judgement. “I will not look at aerobatics alone,” he says. “I’ll look at what’s inside…. I will look at the price and I will look at history.”

“It’s probably comparable to buying onions and potatoes I tell my wife who is technologically challenged,” he adds. “But now we have more vendors to choose from.”




i'm pretty sure the final planes will be of these two..... please share your views

sohamsri

i think USA is gonna put in whatever they've got to convince india to go for the f-18.

since their future is the f-22 and f-35..... they are just trying to sell the hell out of f-18 while it still has value.

but i favour the mig 35

TopHatter

How about the nuts and bolts of Russian quality and spare parts procurement?

Shouldn't the Russians be working their asses off to get India it's aircraft carrier instead of trying to sell them a prototype fighter aircraft?

That's one smart buyer.

He would also do well to consider how many MiG-35's are in the air and have seen combat operations, as opposed to Super Hornets.

I think you're right. It will probably come down to history and relationship, more than anything else.

LetsTalk

India Invited To Join Eurofighter Makers' Consortium - EADS

Whenever there is a fighter competition, the articles are more then plentiful. Especially when ther is 10 billion involved. I will still follow them with interest.

The F-18 is what I am rooting for being I am from Chicago, and Boeing is a hometown company. However, IMO out of all the planes in the competition the Eurofighter is my favorite, than again many factors come to play, local participation, cost, ......

Adux

Tophatter,

There is no comparison MiG-35 isnt in the Russian Airforce; it is a paper-tiger, while Shornet E/F is proven fighter, with combat record, order books full from the USN and Australia. And they are quite cheap to in comparison with the rest of the contenters other than MiG-35. The Only way Americans can loose this and I am sure they will, is because of political strings attached to it. Indians dont enjoy being told or blackmailed into what they can do with the fighter jets they PAID for.(unlike some allies of the USA, who take handouts)

MiG-35 is a bad option, why because it is Russian. We already have PAK-FA 5th Gen Stealth Fighter Programme running with them as well as Su-30MKI and many other. It doesnt make strategic sense to have a full ruskie airforce. Indians always had a good % of Brit and French jets with them.
And Gripen is too similar to LCA.

Somehow I believe the real fight is between EuroFighter and Rafale, both EADS birds, but no doubt the best choice F/A-18 E/F, as we are looking for a strike plane.

Ray

Be an Indian.

Please all.

Give half the contract to the US.

And the other half to USSR or rather, Russia and put the screws on for other faltering deals!

__________________


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HAKUNA MATATA

hello

The Typhoon and Rafale are the top 2 as far as quality is concerned, with lower RCS, more power/performance(The EF can supercruise, the Rafale can operate on carriers), decent avionics(though they could've been better here), and a heavier and wider range of armament. The Rafale also comes from the same maker as the Mirage, which has already been operated successfully in the IAF.

But of course, the twin-engined Eurocanards are also not cheap jets.

There's already an order for 16 MiG-29Ks to operate off a much-delayed carrier which is also Russian. Then there are already the Su-30MKIs, the IAF's main air superiority fighters. There are also all those older MiG-21/23/27/29s running around, becoming infamous for their crash-worthiness. And the PAK-FA stealth fighter program. This is only air equipment. Not to mention Russian ground equipment like the T-90S tanks, BrahMos cruise missile, etc.

sohamsri

that would be a disaster to maintain

sohamsri

Adux sir,

just becaise the mig 35 is russian doesnt mean it has to be bad.
as far as the PAK-FA is concerned, it might never come into existence because already there are a lot of loopholes in the deal.

i dunno why but india wants it single engined and russia wants it twin engined.
as said by IAF officials there are already loads of loopholes discovered in the deal.
so lets leave it aside.

f-18s age is gone.... they'l soon be replaced by f-22s and f-35s... so whatrs the point of buying it ??

one thing tempting about the super hornet is that :-


Boeing Plans Sixth Generation Fighter With Block 3 Super Hornet
Boeing is touting an even newer version of its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet that, paired with an advanced sixth-generation fighter in the works at the company, would give customers what Boeing deems a better package of capabilities than Lockheed Martin's combination of the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The idea is that customers could buy 4.5 generation Super Hornets (perhaps 4.75 generation with the planned extra forward stealth and extra range of Block 3 aircraft) and then switch to a new, sixth generation faster than if they bought the fifth generation Joint Strike Fighter. To be available circa 2024, the sixth generation aircraft would feature a combat radius of more than 1,000 miles and stealth against a much wider spectrum of radars.

"The [Navy] C-version of the F-35 doesn't buy you a lot that the Super Hornet doesn't provide," says Bob Gower, Boeing's vice president for F/A-18 and EA-18G programs. "Our strategy is to create a compelling reason for the services to go to the next [sixth] generation platform. How do you bridge F/A-18E/F to get us there? We want to convince customers to stay with [Super Hornet] a few years longer -- by adding advanced capabilities and lowering price -- so that they can get to the sixth generation faster. If you go to JSF first, it's going to be a long time."

Another part of Boeing's argument is that the "Navy is comfortable with the Super Hornet against the highest [enemy] threat through 2024, with the [improved] capabilities we have in the flight plan," Gower says. "The ability to counter the threat gets you to about the point that [Boeing's] sixth generation is available."

It's part of Boeing's counterattack on Lockheed Martin's claim that the decreasing price of the F-22, which is now at $140 million each, will make it so attractive that Australia may reconsider its buy -- already being paid for -- of 24 two-seat F/A-18F Super Hornets. Until Australia's recent change in government, a number of U.S. officials said the government was considering a second lot of 24 Super Hornets and a six-plane squadron of EA-18G Growlers.

Boeing makes the argument that a sliding in-service date for the JSF is worrying both the Australians and the U.S. military.

"The U.S. Air Force and Navy are now talking a lot more about where they need to go with sixth generation to get beyond JSF," Gower says. "It could be unmanned, but I think you will see a combination of missions -- some manned, some unmanned."

For Boeing, the real discriminators are going to be extended range (1,000-1,500 miles), a small radar signature against low-frequency radars, expanded awareness through connections with the network, and the ability to carry a number of bombs internally.




but still..... i think we should buy the migs

sohamsri

please keep in mind that the mig costs 60 % of the price of the hornet.

Adux

I didnt say that, If our Airforce is 100% Russian, that means we are at the mercy of Russians; let say in future the Russians and Indians parted ways, they refused to give us spares. Our Airforce will be rendered useless. That is a big problem. Its not about the quality or effectiveness of Russian MiG-35, just that we have quite a few of 'em in our airforce.

What if : In an Indo-China war, they support China and send all spares over there; Imagine our situation.

Secondly, Superhornet is offered at 49.8 million dollars a piece. A MiG will cost nearly the same. russian jets are not 'THAT' cheap anymore.

sohamsri

i'm 100% sure that the hornet is considerably more expensive than the the mig i'm 5000% sure about reading that in an article, i'm trying to look for it, but no success yet.

and secondly y dont u keep in mind that the hornet is gonna be outclassed by the raptors and the f-35, what do we do then ?

sohamsri

plus having multiple country jets can be disastrous and horribly expensive to maintain....

Deltacamelately

And I am 1000% that you don't want to effectively checkmate the USAF and the USN, cause then even your Mig 35s don't give you any solution.
Our concerns have nothing to do with the Raptors, they are the sole, truely 5th Gen Acs and are simply the BEST. No luck with either the MKIs nor the Mig35s.

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Ray

The flip side is when there is an arms embargo!