sohamsri

After researching a bit on the rafale I found out that its pretty awsome.





Design

Combat systems

Weapon complement of the Rafale.

The Rafale carries, for the first time in aviation history, an integrated electronic survival system named SPECTRA which features a software-based virtual stealth technology. The most important sensor is the Thales RBE2 passive electronically scanned multi-mode radar. Thales claims to have achieved unprecedented levels of situational awareness through the earlier detection and tracking of multiple air targets for close combat and long-range interception, as well as real time generation of three-dimensional maps for terrain-following and the real time generation of high resolution ground maps for navigation and targeting.[13]

However, in those circumstances when signature management is required, the Rafale can use several passive sensor systems.

The front-sector electro-optical system or Optroniques Secteur Frontal (OSF), developed by Thales, is completely integrated within the aircraft and can operate both in the visible and infrared wavelengths.

The SPECTRA electronic warfare system, jointly developed by Thales and EADS France, provides the aircraft with the highest survivability assets against airborne and ground threats.[14] The real-time data link allows communication not only with other aircraft, but also with fixed and mobile command and control centres. For those missions requiring it, the Rafale will also eventually use the DAMOCLES electro-optical/laser designation pod that brings full day and night LGB capability, though the Armée de l'Air's current plans call for Rafale to use stand off weapons, and for the LGB role to be handled by Mirage 2000s.

The Rafale core systems employ an Integrated Modular Avionics (IMA), called MDPU (Modular Data Processing Unit). This architecture hosts all the core functions of the aircraft as Flight management system, Data Fusion, Fire Control, Man-Machine Interface, etc..[2].

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Cockpit

The cockpit uses a Martin-Baker Mark 16F "zero-zero” ejection seat, i.e. capable of being used at zero speed and zero altitude. The seat is inclined 29 degrees backwards to improve G force tolerance. The canopy hinges open to the right. An on-board oxygen generating system is provided to eliminate the need for multiple oxygen canisters.[3]

The cockpit includes a wide-angle holographic Head Up Display (HUD) and two head-down flat-panel colour multifunction displays ( MFDs). Display interaction is by means of touch input for which the pilot wears silk-lined leather gloves. In addition, in full development, the pilot will have a Helmet-Mounted Display ( HMD).

The pilot flies the aircraft with a side-stick controller mounted on his right and a throttle on his left. These incorporate multiple `hands on throttle and stick’ (HOTAS) controls. The Rafale cockpit is also planned to include Direct Voice Input (DVI), allowing for pilot action by voice commands.

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Radar Signature Reduction features

Although not a true stealth aircraft, the Rafale has reduced radar signature measures like many of its contemporaries such as the Super Hornet and Typhoon. According to Dassault, while most of the stealth design features are classified, extensive use of composite materials and serrated patterns on the trailing edges of the wings and canards help to reduce the radar cross section.[4]

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Standards

Initial deliveries of the Rafale M were to the F1 ("France 1") standard. This meant that the aircraft was suitable for air-to-air combat, replacing the obsolescent F-8 Crusader as the Aviation Navale's carrier-based fighter, but not equipped or armed for air-to-ground operations. Future deliveries (to Flotille 11 some time after 2007) will be to the "F2" standard, giving air-to-ground capability, and replacing the Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard in the ground attack role and the Dassault Étendard IVP in the reconnaissance role. This will leave the Rafale M as the only fixed-wing combat aircraft flown by the Aviation Navale, and plans are to upgrade all airframes to the "F3" standard, with terrain-following 3D radar and nuclear capability, from early in the decade following 2010.[15]

The first Rafale C delivered to the Armée de l'Air, in June 2005, was to the "F2" standard, and it is anticipated that upgrades similar to those of the navy will take place in the future. The Rafale replaces the SEPECAT Jaguar, Mirage F1 and the Mirage 2000 in the Armée de l'Air.





is'nt the self-defence system really hi-tech ??

Blademaster

Supercruise is only good when you have long distance to cross and you need to get to the battlefied quickly. Against PAF, supercruise is not necessary. Evenmore, you won't see IAF planes going supersonic because going supersonic is a surefire way of alerting the enemy that your planes are in the vicinity due to sonic booms.

Against PLAAF, supercruise may make sense seeing that you may wanna engage the PLAAF planes deep in their territory before they come into your airspace but then again, it would mean outdistancing your AWACs and ground air support.

I suspect that the USAAF are finding the feature of supercruise to be of a limited utility and value because they are loathesome to leave their combat planes without AWACs support. At most they can operate 300 miles out from a point. To get to the 300 mile marker at subsonic speed at around 600 miles mph would take 30 minutes. Going at supercruse at around 1200 mph is 15 minutes. The question is does those 15 minutes make the difference?

Adux

In my very humble opinion we lack dedicated bombers, now it really doesnt make sense in the Pakistan context, but somehow for me in Chinese sector, as well as if intend to brind democracy somewhere!!!!!

Something on the lines of Su-34 would be a very tiny step forward, it is a tactical bomber.


PS: Everybody is forgetting that we are looking for a Strike platform with good counter-measures and with high turnabout. Shornet fits the picture perfectly; But American politics is not something that we enjoy especially in the case of Pakistan.

TopHatter

I know, I mentioned those points somewhat obliquely


Man, so do I. And the Web is crawling with them

Adux

I have evolved

Tin Man

Mate, neither is the Rafale, MIG-35 or indeed the Hornet version India would receive...So its a null measure.

What India will do is look at what it needs out of a jet, hope to negotiate a deal that takes Indian aerospace further towards autonomy, at as low a price as possible, whilst still maintaining quality and capability.

That is not much different as far as any deal goes and very easy to understand.

__________________
"Liberty is a thing beyond all price.

zraver

If I was in charge of the Indian procurement and weighed everyhting there are really only 2 contenders. The New Grippen with its loaded super cruise pus AESA. Or the F/A-18 E/F domestically produced. The F/A-18 offers carrier deployment and air force service so you kill two birds with one stone. With AESA and RAM is it a kick ass air dominance fighter, even if it is not a dog fighter or interceptor. Plus it is a damn good bomb truck. Building them in India teaches India how to make modern western aircraft.

With a few AESA equipped F/A-18's acting as armed AWACs and doing C3 duties for SU-30MKI's flying top cover for yet more Super Hornets doing penetration runs at either the PRC or Pakistan India has a near unbeatable edge in Southern Asia. Plus buying the Super Hornet opens up a pathway for the EF-18 Growler for improved SEAD capabilities and as ties increase possibly munitions like the JDM.

Tin Man

ZRAVER, as I understood it, MRCA specified a twin engined bird but I could be in error. If so, this would rule out the Gripen. The S/Hornet looks to be a fantastic weapons system.
On the other hand, the EF Typhoon WILL, by all accounts, be an excellent A2G asset, the one thing that counts against it, is its immaturity as a striker. The offer of partnership in the EURO-Consortium could give India leverage for a CAPTOR-E in IAF versions, even though DRDO is developing its own phased arrays. To say nothing of what else a full partnership could give India. Could Boeing match that deal?

Right now, the Boeing bird looks best, but India has to play ball with Uncle Sam for quite a long time to ensure continued support. Can India risk this?
It would mean best behaviour with Pakistan who is a firm US ally. Ironically, it could actually help stabilize the region, above and beyond what India and Pakistan are doing on their own to quiet their own disputes!

I don`t think for one minute that that India would bite her lip and do nothing if provoked, but it could harm IAF tactically if it relied on Boeing when the kits stopped being shipped in, along with spares..

In terms of current and near term capability, the S/Hornet looks good, but unfortunately these deals are never ever about military value alone, as they should be in my fantasy world!

zraver

For pure performance out side of air show maneuvers the Grippen beats them all. It can super cruise with a useful military load, and has AESA. Something no twin engined bird in the contest can do.


Look how the Eurofighter is being built. India will probably get stuck with some bogus production that doesn't really do anythign for India long term. Boeing is offering domestic production. That is a bit of a shield against sanctions as airframe parts can be made on site even if things like RAM is cut off. Such as the US using what ever leverage it can to stop an Indo-Pakistani war. Indoa also has some of the worlds best computer geeks and scientist so unlike say iran or Pakistan the break down of a US supplied fleet would not happen very quick.

Can India risk China-pakistan alone for the next 30 years until she catches up?


Pakistan is a client, never an ally not anymore. India is a trillion dollar economy and unless she does something stupid like gunning down a thousand or so democracy protester like China did in 89 sanctions won't be an issue.

Domestic production is the key here. A lot of stuff will be made on site, or can be made on site in a pinch.

With Russia cozy to China using a Russian built fleet for all the most critical airframes is dangerous. I don't think India is going to see a single PAK-FA any more than she will see her carrier. Arming India with either forces a Chinese respocne and that means China can also use against Russia.

Tin Man

Won`t the Boeing offering come with AESA? Is supercruise a necessity for IAF? Supercruise actually shrinks your range as opposed to transit at subsonic/transonic speeds, limiting time on station. It has other advantages and disadvantages, the IAF will have to weigh that.

Both are debatable, as is superiority of the Gripen in this competition. Everybody has their favourites, each contender has its pro`s and con`s. The Gripen may well provide the best bang for the Rupee, but I must consult the rules of the acquisition, to see if there actually is an insistence on two engines.
Why do you think the Gripen has the other aircraft beat, I don`t agree at first glance? Today, maybe. Don`t forget, by the time the MRCA aircraft reach the squadrons, they will all be more mature.


We don`t know enough of the details of this supposed EUROFIGHTER CON`, deal to visualize the repercussions or benefits for India. I say hear them out, if it doesn`t benefit India, it will be apparent to us all.


No matter whom India acquires weapons from, the same risks apply, leaders and policy change. I can envisage two or three scenarios where India could be disadvantaged, no matter what direction a new air force comes from.

If I were the Indian PM, I would source from different blocs, feed all of the Alligators, an economy with India`s potential will not run out of food for them.




Client or ally, that position usually leaves yourself open to pressure.

I agree, it is the direction India want to take, autonomy. A mixed inventory is attractive for political as well as practical reasons, but I still see the Rafale and the Typhoon as systems very able to fill this role as well as the S/H or MIG variants. The area where they hurt in is range, but they all do compared to the MIG.

zraver

Super Cruise has its uses, Grippens doing a deep penetration run at super cruise are super sonic inbounds cutting down the time and range the Pakistani F-16's have to react.

Plus side- It is faster than the F/A-18, faster than any contender over a long range. Has better radar than anything but the F/A-18, in fact even the older Gripen radar is based on the same system that led to the Captor. Is not likely to be subject to political restraints. Nearby friendly governments use it in case of a general SE Asia war (Thailand), More agile than anything being offered but the Mig-35. NATO standard compatible so it can use western munitions without western (US or EU) political restrictions.The Swedes build good planes, low operating cost, Mig like- short and unimproved field capability (800m take off and landing). Multiple users means even if India needs a spare and Sweden doesn't have one handy right away- another nation might have one to sell/lend. Multiple user countries with no immediate 5th gen replacement planned means the production lines will be open for years yet to come.

Minus side- single engined, light payload compared to some entrants, unsure about any LO features although its small size probably means something.

Adux

Zraver,

Grippen as good as a US Jet. It is filled with American parts. India would rather go for Boeing than Saab in that case. Indians dont like political interference, and Americans cant do without it.

Adu

sohamsri

bulls eye.

sohamsri

You are right about that one. India did specify that it needs a twin engined fighter.

BUT..... they are not too sure about that. As you can see from the fact that they are considering the f-16 as a very serious contender.

I think new gripen will be a very good choice and its single engine should not be a problem as long as it is reliable.

sohamsri

also.... i notice nobody is considering the mig ??? whats so bad about it ?
its the only plane with the thrust vector. and trust be, thrust vector is not only for air shows. The millisecond you perform the cobra maneuver your planes disappears from the radar of the enemy plane for a few seconds. That can be helpful if enemy lock ons are racing towards you.

Plus it has its own self defence system, which is slightly similar to the rafale, but not as good.

It can carry a lot of armaments(10 missiles + 2 bombs ) according to rosoboron exports brochure which i got in the defence expo.