Pilot sues Boeing over F-15 breaking apart - Page 2

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-26-2008, 06:08 AM

Given the amount of money the Major said he is sueing for, $75k I am leaning towards the fact he is trying to highlight the issue,and prevent anymore unnecassary injury or potential loss of life through neglect. With big business today, defence industries included, nothing gets the attention faster than the thought of losing money,particularly when they cannot hide and not deny responsibility.
I will reserve final judgment for now on the Major's actions, and credit him with integrity and a focus on "getting things put right" as opposed to personal gain or greed.

Adux · 03-26-2008, 06:25 AM

Greed is not the issue here, wether military men should take such path is.

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-26-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

Greed is not the issue here, wether military men should take such path is.

Always rely on Adux to cloud the issue .....Let me put it this way then........ I know greed is not the issue, I think being the Pilot of the aircraft in question gave him the right, if he chooses to adopt a position..........IMO he has done it in a way not to bring the military into disrepute, let time see who is right.............

Expat Canuck · 03-26-2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

Greed is not the issue here, wether military men should take such path is.

He is not suing the military, he is not saying that the F-15 is a terrible a/c all he is doing is suing a huge business for what amounts to a pittance because they sold a defective product that can kill people. Why should he be any different than any other person especially when their negligence cost him his living?

It's not like he was shot down by a friendly SAM and suing the anti air crew. He is suing a company that sold defective product and most likely knew about it. Someone would have noticed if a full quarter of the delivered F-15's had a problem as big as this.

Adux · 03-26-2008, 07:15 AM

Expat, Tigger,

We have MiG-21 crashes here in India, because of faulty parts. But even then the Pilots nor the Airforce cant go the media or the civilian judical system. Its bit more uptight here, I am sure there are several military procedures by which the major can show his displeasure or even campign against Boeing. I feel he is doing this with good intention, i just dont approve of the route he has taken.

Adux · 03-26-2008, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

Always rely on Adux to cloud the issue .....Let me put it this way then........ I know greed is not the issue, I think being the Pilot of the aircraft in question gave him the right, if he chooses to adopt a position..........IMO he has done it in a way not to bring the military into disrepute, let time see who is right.............

Still slow

tankie · 03-26-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ucar

When soldiers have to make to with defective products, they die. When civilians have to make to with defective products, they sue the company and get settlements to guarantee a lifetime of happiness.

The Major is trying to make his point in a clear and concise way. He is faced with a piece of equipment that can kill him, and he does not think dying that way is the same as dying for his country.

Spot on Ucar and S2, Hey Dave , its 75.000 = £35 000 app not 25.000 however to end a guys carrer and he is only suing for that amount shows it aint the money he is just after , ( although i reckon he will get more ) , i wonder if this action will highlight some of the problems that face the British Military ref dodgy equipment , like the new rifle that was prone to jams etc etc.and who will take up the batton , if anyone

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-26-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

Still slow

Please explain, I have no idea what you mean

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-26-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

Expat, Tigger,
i just dont approve of the route he has taken.

And that does not make you right and us wrong. These are all opinions based on the given facts, I respect your opinion, no need for me to highlight what the issue is, I grant you the intelligence to know because you have a comment on the subject.

Adux · 03-26-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

[b][i]And that does not make you right and us wrong.

I havent said that you are, all I said is just I dont approve of the route he has taken, I just think this might stand as a precedent to frivilous lawsuits on stupid issues just like it has happened in the civilian world, I dont think it will have a good effect on dicipline and respect for chain of command.

Like in "Saving Private Ryan" Tom Hanks(Captain) says you crib and cry to me and i do that to my superiors, and thats how it goes all the way up the chain"

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-26-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

I havent said that you are, all I said is just I dont approve of the route he has taken, I just think this might stand as a precedent to frivilous lawsuits on stupid issues just like it has happened in the civilian world, I dont think it will have a good effect on dicipline and respect for chain of command.

Like in "Saving Private Ryan" Tom Hanks(Captain) says you crib and cry to me and i do that to my superiors, and thats how it goes all the way up the chain"

............... So a front line fighter falling out of the sky is a "stupid issue"......ok now I see where you are coming from.

Adux · 03-26-2008, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

............... So a front line fighter falling out of the sky is a "stupid issue"......ok now I see where you are coming from.

You very well know that I didnt mean that, This though very important issue, will stand as a precedent for more soldiers to go to civilian infra, and I dont think when that happens all of it is going to be as important as 'front line fighter falling out of the sky"

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-26-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

Given the amount of money the Major said he is sueing for, $75k I am leaning towards the fact he is trying to highlight the issue,and prevent anymore unnecassary injury or potential loss of life through neglect. With big business today, defence industries included, nothing gets the attention faster than the thought of losing money,particularly when they cannot hide and not deny responsibility.
I will reserve final judgment for now on the Major's actions, and credit him with integrity and a focus on "getting things put right" as opposed to personal gain or greed.

Dont normally quote myself but this is what I originaly wrote.

dave lukins · 03-26-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

Dont normally quote myself but this is what I originaly wrote.

And a lovely re-Quote it is

Yes, if my 'plane fell out of the sky I too would be miffed, and would require some sort ot recourse whether through the Military or civilian route

Albany Rifles · 03-26-2008, 09:11 AM

2 things to consider

1. The Major is a member of the Air National Guard, not the regular US Air Force. The National Guard has 2 components; Air National Guard and Army National Guard. As you can imagine the Army Guard provides ground combat units for the US Army and the Air Guard provides air units for the USAF. But the Guard also has a mission to respond to the state's governor for emergencies and head of the National Guard for each state is the State Adjutant General. The AG is appointed by the state's governor since the Guard's first responsibility is to the state. By its very nature, the National Guard is much more political organization than the Active component. The AG is usually a long serving Guardsman from either the Air or Army Guard

The Missouri Guard AG is an Army NG member. This could be an underlying reason for the major's actions. I recall in the 1990s the AG for New York was an Air Guard general. At the time I was working extensively with the New York Army National Guard on a project. From the brigade comamnder on down they were very bitter about the State AG since there was a perception that the AG favored Air Guard offciers for key appointments over Army Guard members. This was of particular import to these guys because their proud Infantry brigade was going to be reorganized into an area support group...with the full support of the governor and State AG. For the state, this would make sense since it would provide better resources for state in times of emergencies. For the Army Guard guys this would force many to change from Infantry to Quartermaster, MP or Engineers.

And it would end up closing out a unti with proud traditions and comabt records from WW 1 & 2.

I am not saying this what is the case now but perhaps there is some of this the major's actions.

2. I am with others that the dollar cost is low. Perhaps it is the amount which he has lost in flight pay since he is no longer on flight status and is merely an attempt to even out his salary.

Just some thoughts from the lunatic fringe.

03-26-2008, 06:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
T_igger_cs_30 *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: Canada Posts: 1,943 Country:	Given the amount of money the Major said he is sueing for, $75k I am leaning towards the fact he is trying to highlight the issue,and prevent anymore unnecassary injury or potential loss of life through neglect. With big business today, defence industries included, nothing gets the attention faster than the thought of losing money,particularly when they cannot hide and not deny responsibility. I will reserve final judgment for now on the Major's actions, and credit him with integrity and a focus on "getting things put right" as opposed to personal gain or greed. __________________ $<img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />$ FEAR NAUGHT I don't work here ...I am an analyst!

03-26-2008, 09:11 AM	#30 (permalink)
Albany Rifles *Defense Professional* *Military Professional* Join Date: 04-27-07 Location: Prince George, VA Posts: 1,019 Country:	2 things to consider 1. The Major is a member of the Air National Guard, not the regular US Air Force. The National Guard has 2 components; Air National Guard and Army National Guard. As you can imagine the Army Guard provides ground combat units for the US Army and the Air Guard provides air units for the USAF. But the Guard also has a mission to respond to the state's governor for emergencies and head of the National Guard for each state is the State Adjutant General. The AG is appointed by the state's governor since the Guard's first responsibility is to the state. By its very nature, the National Guard is much more political organization than the Active component. The AG is usually a long serving Guardsman from either the Air or Army Guard The Missouri Guard AG is an Army NG member. This could be an underlying reason for the major's actions. I recall in the 1990s the AG for New York was an Air Guard general. At the time I was working extensively with the New York Army National Guard on a project. From the brigade comamnder on down they were very bitter about the State AG since there was a perception that the AG favored Air Guard offciers for key appointments over Army Guard members. This was of particular import to these guys because their proud Infantry brigade was going to be reorganized into an area support group...with the full support of the governor and State AG. For the state, this would make sense since it would provide better resources for state in times of emergencies. For the Army Guard guys this would force many to change from Infantry to Quartermaster, MP or Engineers. And it would end up closing out a unti with proud traditions and comabt records from WW 1 & 2. I am not saying this what is the case now but perhaps there is some of this the major's actions. 2. I am with others that the dollar cost is low. Perhaps it is the amount which he has lost in flight pay since he is no longer on flight status and is merely an attempt to even out his salary. Just some thoughts from the lunatic fringe. __________________ "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves." TSGT Oddball, Tank Commander Last edited by Albany Rifles : 03-26-2008 at 09:14 AM.

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03-26-2008, 06:25 AM	#17 (permalink)
Adux Banished Join Date: 07-29-05 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,931 Country:	Greed is not the issue here, wether military men should take such path is.

03-26-2008, 07:15 AM	#20 (permalink)
Adux Banished Join Date: 07-29-05 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,931 Country:	Expat, Tigger, We have MiG-21 crashes here in India, because of faulty parts. But even then the Pilots nor the Airforce cant go the media or the civilian judical system. Its bit more uptight here, I am sure there are several military procedures by which the major can show his displeasure or even campign against Boeing. I feel he is doing this with good intention, i just dont approve of the route he has taken.

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