Russian Corporation Irkut Pulls Out of Multirole Transport Aircraft Project; HAL Seek

Tronic · 03-15-2008, 14:24 PM

Quote:

Russian Corporation Irkut Pulls Out of Multirole Transport Aircraft Project; HAL Seeks Foreign Partners

The Irkut Corporation based in Irkutsk in eastern Siberia, has decided to stop financing the Indo-Russian joint production of Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA).

(Sources: UNI, Wikipedia, FlightGlobal)

Russian daily newspaper Vedomosti reported that Corporation now would focus on the MS-21 medium-haul passenger airliner together with Sukhoi Civilian Aircraft. Another Russian aviation giant, the Ilyushin Aviation Complex, which developed the MTA plane, also decided to withdraw from the MS-21 project.

HAL-Irkut-Ilyushin Funding Disputes

As of August 2007, though, HAL began seeking Western partners following a dispute with Russian companies over funding. The 2002 deal stated that India and Russia both would contribute 50% each creating a 50-50 joint venture, with a Russian consortium - a coalition of Irkutsk Aviation and Industrial Association, Ilyushin Aviation Complex and Rosoboronexport - contributing $300 million and HAL contributing the remainder.

FlightGlobal.com August 2007 Report

India could seek new partners for its armed forces' military Multi-role Transport Aircraft programme, with a five-year-old joint Indo-Russian joint venture in danger of collapsing following a disagreement over its funding.

Prime contractor Hindustan Aeronautics, the Indian state-owned aerospace major, has reportedly approached other Western companies with a view to possible collaboration on the development and joint manufacture of 60t transport aircraft.

A response is expected in the next two months and HAL will then study the submissions before making a recommendation to the Indian Cabinet, which will decide on the programme's fate by the end of 2007.

Under the 2002 deal, HAL and a Russian consortium comprising Irkutsk Aviation and Ilyushin Aviation were to each contribute $350 million to the joint venture.

HAL was to design the front fuselage and wing and the Russian companies the rear and center fuselage. HAL could also help in developing the avionics, while engines could be supplied by Pratt & Whitney or Russian manufacturers.

"The Russian companies now appear to be hesitant about the amount of money they need to invest in the project, even though everything seemed to be done and dusted just a few months ago," says an industry source. "Given that the India wants the new transport aircraft by 2013, the defence ministry and the air force must seek funding from the next financial year if the programme is to successfully go ahead."

Another industry source adds that the Russians may now want India to buy a number of aircraft directly from them, and then produce the remainder under license at HAL facilities. That, however, may not be acceptable to an Indian defence establishment that is increasingly keen to promote its indigenous arms industry to reduce the reliance on Western and Russian suppliers.

If HAL does not get a suitable response from the non-Russian companies, or if negotiations with Irkut and Ilyushin do not make much progress, the Multi-role Transport Aircraft programme could be abandoned and an open tender could be called for the aircraft.

Under the original plan, India was to commit to 100 transports and have another 100 on option. Russia was to have bought 100 aircraft produced by the joint venture. Production was to have started by the end of the decade, with the first aircraft entering service with the Indian air force in 2013. These would replace New Delhi's aging Antonov An-32s that first entered into service in the 1970s.

Russian Corporation Irkut Pulls Out of Multirole Transport Aircraft Project; HAL Seeks Foreign Partners | India Defence

I thought the Indo-Russian ties of the future were supposed to be based on joint development and production. Guess not.

Blademaster · 03-15-2008, 15:16 PM

Dump the Russians after we get the nuke subs. We don't need them for anything more.

Sardaukar · 03-15-2008, 15:42 PM

One more russian deal goes down closet. And still the Netas and Babus go on their knees to the Russians..... like the upgrade of the Migs... Indian politicians have no backbone

kuku · 03-15-2008, 16:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Dump the Russians after we get the nuke subs. We don't need them for anything more.

You really think Russia will give India the subs, they have other priorities, like building up their own navy.

Quote:

The Irkut Corporation based in Irkutsk in eastern Siberia, has decided to stop financing the Indo-Russian joint production of Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA).

(Sources: UNI, Wikipedia, FlightGlobal)

Russian daily newspaper Vedomosti reported that Corporation now would focus on the MS-21 medium-haul passenger airliner together with Sukhoi Civilian Aircraft. Another Russian aviation giant, the Ilyushin Aviation Complex, which developed the MTA plane, also decided to withdraw from the MS-21 project.

HAL-Irkut-Ilyushin Funding Disputes

As of August 2007, though, HAL began seeking Western partners following a dispute with Russian companies over funding. The 2002 deal stated that India and Russia both would contribute 50% each creating a 50-50 joint venture, with a Russian consortium - a coalition of Irkutsk Aviation and Industrial Association, Ilyushin Aviation Complex and Rosoboronexport - contributing $300 million and HAL contributing the remainder.

So wiki, UNI and flight global are the source, however can not find this news online, wonder why?

If HAL has been looking for foreign partners sine 2007, what the hell is new about this report?

I think this did more good than bad, wonder when India will pull out of the next big money pit the PAK-FA.

Its funny how people were predicting this MTA disaster going nowhere.

FullTank · 03-15-2008, 17:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Dump the Russians after we get the nuke subs. We don't need them for anything more.

dump the gorshkov first.

Blademaster · 03-16-2008, 14:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullTank

dump the gorshkov first.

If we get our money back, yes and then sign up for the British-French consortium of the CVF program.

kuku · 03-16-2008, 15:06 PM

Any mainstream news source citing this news report?
Any press release etc.?
Cant find them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

If we get our money back, yes and then sign up for the British-French consortium of the CVF program.

And waste the money on the CVF instead.

I hope the Navy had given good thought to the need of the carrier and put it into use for the IAC project, if true we might say that it is their vision for the carrier based aviation.

I say yes to the F-35(if possible), and no to the CVF. (both of which are not around right now).

However the F-35 might come with the Americans restricting its paper usage to Bangladesh border or Against Naxals. (only one of them at a time)

Sardaukar · 03-18-2008, 07:17 AM

IJT delivery schedule goes awry

Ravi Sharma
HAL received order for 12 Limited Series Production aircraft

Flying tests of the aircraft yet to begin

BANGALORE: The delay in developing a new Russian engine (AL-551) that will power the indigenous intermediate jet trainer (IJT) has resulted in the aircraft’s delivery schedules going awry.

As per the original schedule, the first batch of IJTs was to have been delivered to the Air Force in 2005-06. But the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) designed and manufactured trainer aircraft will now not be able to meet even the revised 2007-08 schedule.

Coded the Hindustan Jet Trainer (HJT)-36, HAL received an order for 12 Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft five years ago.

Sources in HAL told The Hindu that as part of the IJT programme, two AL-551 engines were to have been readied and tested. One was expected to arrive at HAL’s Aircraft Division here for ground integration on the IJT last November, eventually flying the trainer aircraft in July 2008. But it is yet to arrive.

The other engine was to be tested on a flying platform in Russia. Though the task of mounting the engine on the Russian trainer aircraft, MiG-AT, had begun, the flying tests were yet to begin, the sources said.

Crucial tests
The flying tests in Russia are crucial, as only after the new engine is cleared there, it could be used to power the IJTs in India.

The flight test programme in Russia will require the engine to fly the MiG-AT for around 30 hours. This should normally take around three months to complete. A HAL team is expected to visit Russia “once the testing of the new engine is in full swing.”

Meant to be the backbone of the Air Force’s stage II or combat pilot training programme, the IJT, called “Sitara,” was sanctioned by the government in 1999 with an initial budget of Rs. 180 crore.

Making its first flight in March 2003, it is meant to replace the Air Force’s workhorse, HJT-16 or Kiran. Around 225 HJT-36s are to be eventually produced, serving the IAF, the Navy as well as the Air Force’s Surya Kiran aerobatic team.

More powerful engine
Though the two IJT prototypes that have taken to the skies are powered by the French-made Snecma Larzac 04H20 engine, HAL, in conjunction with the Air Force’s air staff requirements, opted in 2005 for a new and more powerful engine (AL-551) that was promised by the Russian aircraft engine designer/manufacturer, NPO-Saturn.

The Russian engine is a scaled-down version of the AL-31FP engine that flies the Su-30 MKI combat aircraft. The AL-551 will power the 12 LSP aircraft and future production models of the IJT.

While the estimated cost of the engine’s development is Rs. 185 crore, over 200 engines are to be eventually produced by HAL at the Koraput (Orissa) plant. HAL now hopes to produce two LSP aircraft in 2008-09 and complete the remaining 10 by 2009-10.
------------------------------------------
The Hindu : National : IJT delivery schedule goes awry

glyn · 03-18-2008, 10:54 AM

It seems that after countless setbacks in all sorts of programs, the love affair between India and Russian producers of military equipment continues.

tphuang · 03-21-2008, 00:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

I thought the Indo-Russian ties of the future were supposed to be based on joint development and production. Guess not.

I'm under the impression that this is an old article and the issue was resolved later. Reading the article, it seemed to have originated in early 2007.

Adux · 03-21-2008, 01:18 AM

MTA and PAK-FA are programs both the Russian and Indian Airforces can ill-afford to abandon. Both are in progress. Though it is only HAL from the Indian Side, it is not just Irkut from the Russian side. So the story is correct but not entirely.

Tronic · 03-21-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tphuang

I'm under the impression that this is an old article and the issue was resolved later. Reading the article, it seemed to have originated in early 2007.

Yes, it seems old; and as new reports indicate:

Zee News - India Russia deal aircraft

1947 · 04-15-2008, 04:55 AM

dump the ruskies their gettin too rusty nowadays and go with the israelis

03-18-2008, 07:17 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sardaukar Banished Regular Join Date: 02-29-08 Location: Germany Posts: 79 Country:	And another one..... IJT delivery schedule goes awry Ravi Sharma HAL received order for 12 Limited Series Production aircraft Flying tests of the aircraft yet to begin BANGALORE: The delay in developing a new Russian engine (AL-551) that will power the indigenous intermediate jet trainer (IJT) has resulted in the aircraft’s delivery schedules going awry. As per the original schedule, the first batch of IJTs was to have been delivered to the Air Force in 2005-06. But the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) designed and manufactured trainer aircraft will now not be able to meet even the revised 2007-08 schedule. Coded the Hindustan Jet Trainer (HJT)-36, HAL received an order for 12 Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft five years ago. Sources in HAL told The Hindu that as part of the IJT programme, two AL-551 engines were to have been readied and tested. One was expected to arrive at HAL’s Aircraft Division here for ground integration on the IJT last November, eventually flying the trainer aircraft in July 2008. But it is yet to arrive. The other engine was to be tested on a flying platform in Russia. Though the task of mounting the engine on the Russian trainer aircraft, MiG-AT, had begun, the flying tests were yet to begin, the sources said. Crucial tests The flying tests in Russia are crucial, as only after the new engine is cleared there, it could be used to power the IJTs in India. The flight test programme in Russia will require the engine to fly the MiG-AT for around 30 hours. This should normally take around three months to complete. A HAL team is expected to visit Russia “once the testing of the new engine is in full swing.” Meant to be the backbone of the Air Force’s stage II or combat pilot training programme, the IJT, called “Sitara,” was sanctioned by the government in 1999 with an initial budget of Rs. 180 crore. Making its first flight in March 2003, it is meant to replace the Air Force’s workhorse, HJT-16 or Kiran. Around 225 HJT-36s are to be eventually produced, serving the IAF, the Navy as well as the Air Force’s Surya Kiran aerobatic team. More powerful engine Though the two IJT prototypes that have taken to the skies are powered by the French-made Snecma Larzac 04H20 engine, HAL, in conjunction with the Air Force’s air staff requirements, opted in 2005 for a new and more powerful engine (AL-551) that was promised by the Russian aircraft engine designer/manufacturer, NPO-Saturn. The Russian engine is a scaled-down version of the AL-31FP engine that flies the Su-30 MKI combat aircraft. The AL-551 will power the 12 LSP aircraft and future production models of the IJT. While the estimated cost of the engine’s development is Rs. 185 crore, over 200 engines are to be eventually produced by HAL at the Koraput (Orissa) plant. HAL now hopes to produce two LSP aircraft in 2008-09 and complete the remaining 10 by 2009-10. ------------------------------------------ The Hindu : National : IJT delivery schedule goes awry

03-18-2008, 10:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
glyn *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-15-06 Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK Posts: 6,531	It seems that after countless setbacks in all sorts of programs, the love affair between India and Russian producers of military equipment continues. __________________ Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

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03-15-2008, 15:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Blademaster Military Enthusiast *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-15-03 Posts: 3,050	Dump the Russians after we get the nuke subs. We don't need them for anything more.

03-15-2008, 15:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sardaukar Banished Regular Join Date: 02-29-08 Location: Germany Posts: 79 Country:	One more russian deal goes down closet. And still the Netas and Babus go on their knees to the Russians..... like the upgrade of the Migs... Indian politicians have no backbone

03-21-2008, 01:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
Adux Banished Join Date: 07-29-05 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,931 Country:	MTA and PAK-FA are programs both the Russian and Indian Airforces can ill-afford to abandon. Both are in progress. Though it is only HAL from the Indian Side, it is not just Irkut from the Russian side. So the story is correct but not entirely.

04-15-2008, 04:55 AM	#13 (permalink)
1947 Patron Join Date: 04-15-08 Location: Melbourne Posts: 191 Country:	dump the ruskies their gettin too rusty nowadays and go with the israelis

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