Russia wins $950 million dollar from India for aircraft upgrade

gamercube · 03-08-2008, 15:38 PM

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | MiG ‘gift’ to Medvedev

New Delhi, March 7: India today put its money where its mouth is in “valuing” Russia’s friendship and gifted to Moscow’s newly-elected President Dmitry Medvedev a nearly Rs 4,000-crore order to upgrade frontline fighter aircraft.

Russia has swung the deal despite the pro-West atmospherics from the security establishment and its recent vocal exasperation with supplies of Russian military hardware.

Russian aircraft corporation MiG will modernise five squadrons — about 90 — MiG 29 air superiority fighters in the Indian Air Force fleet after the contract, estimated to be upwards of $950 million but less than a billion dollars, was signed this evening.

The gift to Moscow flies in the face of the defence establishment’s irritation with Russia over the delay in the upgradation and delivery of the $1.5-billion Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier and supplies of other equipment for the Indian armed forces.

Russia has demanded an additional $1.2 billion above the contracted amount for the Gorshkov, a development that had the navy chief, Admiral Sureesh Mehta, publicly doubting the future of India-Russia relations.

“We in India greatly value our longstanding and time tested ties with Russia,” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had written in a congratulatory note to Medvedev earlier this week. The letter was released today.

The Prime Minister said India-Russia ties “are based on a strong foundation of deep mutual trust, confidence and understanding. I look forward to working together with Your Excellency to further strengthen the strategic partnership between our two countries.”

As a consequence of today’s deal, RAC MiG will upgrade the entire fleet of the MiG 29s. (The MiG 29s are not to be confused with the MiG 21s, which are far less capable and older but form a bulk of the IAF’s combat aircraft fleet).

The IAF is also in talks with Dassault Aviation of France to upgrade its fleet of about 52 Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft. The talks are locked in price negotiations with Dassault understood to have quoted more than a billion dollars.

An RAC MiG spokesperson said the upgrade would extend the service life of the MiG 29s to 3,500 flight hours and 40 years. It is not clear if the contract has a price escalation clause — a proviso that was not negotiated for the Gorshkov carrier — with the result that the Russians could demand more than a billion dollars four years after the deal.

The MiG spokesperson said the MiG 29s would now have an avionics suite that featured in the ship-borne MiG 29K/KUB fighter aircraft.

IAF sources said the upgrade will be partly done at the base repair depot in Nashik but also in Russia. To begin with, RAC MiG will upgrade and flight-test the first six aircraft in Russia.

MiG 29s are air superiority fighters primarily intended to intercept aerial targets. The modernisation package includes the Zhuk-ME radar, an advanced onboard computing complex, a new weapons control system, an optromic station based on space technologies and colour multifunctional displays in the cockpit.

The MiG spokesperson said the contract includes an offsets (re-investment) clause of 30 per cent of the value of the order (about Rs 1,200 crore).

Today’s deal also enthused RAC MiG to pitch its bid for an estimated $10.2-billion order for 126 multi-role combat aircraft — for which it is in competition with five other companies — higher.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Where does this upgrade leave the Mig-29 in terms of capability vis-a-vis Western fighters? How good is the Zhuk-ME radar? How will the other upgrades make the Mig-29 qualitatively better than it was?

kuku · 03-09-2008, 05:53 AM

When did we get 90 MiG-29s?

The radar will detect and track the target and guide the missile near it, at about the maximum range of the missile. The IAF will never use them for Air to Ground role.

Do not know how reliable the radar will be. Oh well i guess now the spares should not be a problem.

Quote:

The MiG spokesperson said the MiG 29s would now have an avionics suite that featured in the ship-borne MiG 29K/KUB fighter aircraft.

That will help the navy, they would not have preferred being stuck at it alone

Quote:

An RAC MiG spokesperson said the upgrade would extend the service life of the MiG 29s to 3,500 flight hours and 40 years.

Thats Russian magic at work.

Quote:

MiG 29s are air superiority fighters primarily intended to intercept aerial targets. The modernisation package includes the Zhuk-ME radar, an advanced onboard computing complex, a new weapons control system, an optromic station based on space technologies and colour multifunctional displays in the cockpit.

Abra ka dabra more Russian magic from space.

Seriously does update the Mig-29s, they seem to be what they were, just more effective (thankfully), more than enough for their role in the neighbourhood for the coming years.
IAF needs the AEW/C&C systems, now.

The Algerians were dismayed at the quality of their planes right?

What were they crying about?

Both upgrades seem to be the same

Quote:

– Modern high precision weapons of "A-S" class are included into the weapons nomenclature. It is provided for the weapons nomenclature enhancement during aircraft life cycle.
– The aircraft is equipped with multifunctional multi-mode pulse-Doppler airborne "Zhuk-ME" radar manufactured by "Fazotron-NIIP" Corporation. The radar is provided with a slot antenna array. As compared with the airborne radar of the previous generation the "Zhuk-ME" has enhanced scanning angles in azimuth, twice increased detection range, less weight and higher reliability. The "Zhuk-ME" radar provides for tracking up to 10 air targets with capability of simultaneous firing of 4 targets with missiles.
– The airborne avionics of the MiG-29SMT aircraft is designed following the principle of open architecture on the basis of a mission computer with the data exchange multiplex channel (bus of MIL STD 1553B standard). It allows to install aboard the aircraft the new systems of Russian or foreign origin at the customer’s request.
– The cockpit data display system includes two new wide-screen MFD-10-6 multifunction color displays and realizes the HOTAS conception.
– INS-GPS navigation system is included into the navigation equipment.
– The aircraft is equipped with in-flight refuelling system.

Aircraft can be equipped with ECM system installed in pod. At the customer’s request the MiG-29SMT aircraft can be equipped with the upgraded IRSTS system as well as with radio-stations, navigation equipment and IFF transponders of different types.

While upgrading the previously supplied aircraft to the MiG-29SMT version the following optional works can be fulfilled:
– aircraft structure reinforcement for the extension of flight hours and service life (depending on the aircraft technical condition);
– increase of internal fuel tanks capacity;
– installation of in-flight refueling systems of different types;
– improvement and/or replacement of some airborne systems;
– repair and transfer to on-condition maintenance.

- MiG-29SMT, upgraded MiG-29UB aircraft

I hope the MiG people do what they say, really that is all that is needed and the IAF should become a fan.

Silent Hunter · 03-09-2008, 10:39 AM

kuku, the Algerians were apparently unhappy because they got second-hand airframes.

kuku · 03-09-2008, 11:08 AM

Oh, i thought that was the deal with Algeria upgraded old frames.

That must have been a rude surprise.

As i said if the Mig has done what they say, the IAF will be impressed. Looks good on paper.

Blademaster · 03-09-2008, 20:51 PM

Will the new avionics make the aircraft more heavy and result in a penalty of lower engine thrust ratio?

xinhui · 03-09-2008, 22:19 PM

There are things I just don't understand.... how is that a "gift" when the price was agreed at 888 mil in Dec 2006.

India’s Fighter Modernization: Add MiG-29s to the List (updated)

IANS reports that India is finalizing a proposal to have its fleet of MiG-29 lightweight fighters refurbished for $888 million by the Russian company RSK-MiG, which has a dedicated upgrade set designed to take older MiG-29s to MiG-29SMT/UBT status.

**TopHatter** · 03-09-2008, 22:20 PM

Quote:

Russia wins $950 million dollar from India for aircraft upgrade

According to informed sources, five minutes after the contract was signed, more than half of the $950 million vanished into thin air due to graft, corruption and gross underbidding of the contract.

It's predicted that 6 months from now, the Russian defence industry will demand an additional $1.6 billion to complete the job.

6 months after that, the Russian defence industry will admit to losing the plans and schematics for the upgrade and demand another $650 million.

No reason will be given for the additional $650 million, except that "It's simply the way we do things here".

____________

kuku · 03-09-2008, 22:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xinhui

There are things I just don't understand.... how is that a "gift" when the price was agreed at 888 mil in Dec 2006.

India’s Fighter Modernization: Add MiG-29s to the List (updated)

IANS reports that India is finalizing a proposal to have its fleet of MiG-29 lightweight fighters refurbished for $888 million by the Russian company RSK-MiG, which has a dedicated upgrade set designed to take older MiG-29s to MiG-29SMT/UBT status.

Ah but you see xinhui nothing is true till it is true.

Its only when the pen and paper meet that a deal is signed, India had other options, strong options, especially after the engine-spare part had been taken care of.

xinhui · 03-09-2008, 23:10 PM

my point is that, it is not a "gift"

kuku · 03-09-2008, 23:39 PM

i thought you were stressing on the "888 mil price in Dec 2006."

its not a gift, that is for sure, the report has other some other errors.

braindead · 03-10-2008, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xinhui

There are things I just don't understand.... how is that a "gift" when the price was agreed at 888 mil in Dec 2006.

India’s Fighter Modernization: Add MiG-29s to the List (updated)

IANS reports that India is finalizing a proposal to have its fleet of MiG-29 lightweight fighters refurbished for $888 million by the Russian company RSK-MiG, which has a dedicated upgrade set designed to take older MiG-29s to MiG-29SMT/UBT status.

Has USD really fallen that fast ?

Silent Hunter · 03-10-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead

Has USD really fallen that fast ?

Short answer, yes. Anyone got the Ruppees price?

kuku · 03-10-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter

Short answer, yes. Anyone got the Ruppees price?

Dollar to Rupee
December 2006
44.4781 INR (21 days average)
Febuary 2008
39.6724 INR (21 days average)

Monthly Average Graph (Indian Rupee, American Dollar) 2006
Monthly Average Graph (Indian Rupee, American Dollar) 2008

Tronic · 03-10-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xinhui

my point is that, it is not a "gift"

Maybe, its a gift in terms of, "Well, you ripped us off on the Gorshkov, but despite that heres another contract worth almost a billion due to our decades old friendship."

Silent Hunter · 03-10-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuku

Dollar to Rupee
December 2006
44.4781 INR (21 days average)
Febuary 2008
39.6724 INR (21 days average)

Monthly Average Graph (Indian Rupee, American Dollar) 2006
Monthly Average Graph (Indian Rupee, American Dollar) 2008

That wasn't quite what I meant, but thanks. How much did the whole lot of "Fulcrums" cost in Rupees?

03-08-2008, 15:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
gamercube Contributor Join Date: 11-20-06 Location: Barbados Posts: 696 Country:	Russia wins $950 million dollar from India for aircraft upgrade The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) \| Nation \| MiG ‘gift’ to Medvedev New Delhi, March 7: India today put its money where its mouth is in “valuing” Russia’s friendship and gifted to Moscow’s newly-elected President Dmitry Medvedev a nearly Rs 4,000-crore order to upgrade frontline fighter aircraft. Russia has swung the deal despite the pro-West atmospherics from the security establishment and its recent vocal exasperation with supplies of Russian military hardware. Russian aircraft corporation MiG will modernise five squadrons — about 90 — MiG 29 air superiority fighters in the Indian Air Force fleet after the contract, estimated to be upwards of $950 million but less than a billion dollars, was signed this evening. The gift to Moscow flies in the face of the defence establishment’s irritation with Russia over the delay in the upgradation and delivery of the $1.5-billion Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier and supplies of other equipment for the Indian armed forces. Russia has demanded an additional $1.2 billion above the contracted amount for the Gorshkov, a development that had the navy chief, Admiral Sureesh Mehta, publicly doubting the future of India-Russia relations. “We in India greatly value our longstanding and time tested ties with Russia,” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had written in a congratulatory note to Medvedev earlier this week. The letter was released today. The Prime Minister said India-Russia ties “are based on a strong foundation of deep mutual trust, confidence and understanding. I look forward to working together with Your Excellency to further strengthen the strategic partnership between our two countries.” As a consequence of today’s deal, RAC MiG will upgrade the entire fleet of the MiG 29s. (The MiG 29s are not to be confused with the MiG 21s, which are far less capable and older but form a bulk of the IAF’s combat aircraft fleet). The IAF is also in talks with Dassault Aviation of France to upgrade its fleet of about 52 Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft. The talks are locked in price negotiations with Dassault understood to have quoted more than a billion dollars. An RAC MiG spokesperson said the upgrade would extend the service life of the MiG 29s to 3,500 flight hours and 40 years. It is not clear if the contract has a price escalation clause — a proviso that was not negotiated for the Gorshkov carrier — with the result that the Russians could demand more than a billion dollars four years after the deal. The MiG spokesperson said the MiG 29s would now have an avionics suite that featured in the ship-borne MiG 29K/KUB fighter aircraft. IAF sources said the upgrade will be partly done at the base repair depot in Nashik but also in Russia. To begin with, RAC MiG will upgrade and flight-test the first six aircraft in Russia. MiG 29s are air superiority fighters primarily intended to intercept aerial targets. The modernisation package includes the Zhuk-ME radar, an advanced onboard computing complex, a new weapons control system, an optromic station based on space technologies and colour multifunctional displays in the cockpit. The MiG spokesperson said the contract includes an offsets (re-investment) clause of 30 per cent of the value of the order (about Rs 1,200 crore). Today’s deal also enthused RAC MiG to pitch its bid for an estimated $10.2-billion order for 126 multi-role combat aircraft — for which it is in competition with five other companies — higher. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Where does this upgrade leave the Mig-29 in terms of capability vis-a-vis Western fighters? How good is the Zhuk-ME radar? How will the other upgrades make the Mig-29 qualitatively better than it was? __________________ Hasta la Victoria siempre!

03-09-2008, 11:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
kuku Contributor Join Date: 02-28-08 Location: delhi Posts: 571 Country:	Oh, i thought that was the deal with Algeria upgraded old frames. That must have been a rude surprise. As i said if the Mig has done what they say, the IAF will be impressed. Looks good on paper. Last edited by kuku : 03-09-2008 at 11:14 AM.

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03-09-2008, 10:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 501 Country:	kuku, the Algerians were apparently unhappy because they got second-hand airframes.

03-09-2008, 20:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Blademaster Military Enthusiast *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-15-03 Posts: 3,007	Will the new avionics make the aircraft more heavy and result in a penalty of lower engine thrust ratio?

03-09-2008, 22:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
xinhui Lei Feng Protege *Defense Professional* Join Date: 05-17-06 Posts: 651	There are things I just don't understand.... how is that a "gift" when the price was agreed at 888 mil in Dec 2006. India’s Fighter Modernization: Add MiG-29s to the List (updated) IANS reports that India is finalizing a proposal to have its fleet of MiG-29 lightweight fighters refurbished for $888 million by the Russian company RSK-MiG, which has a dedicated upgrade set designed to take older MiG-29s to MiG-29SMT/UBT status.

03-09-2008, 23:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
xinhui Lei Feng Protege *Defense Professional* Join Date: 05-17-06 Posts: 651	my point is that, it is not a "gift"

03-09-2008, 23:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
kuku Contributor Join Date: 02-28-08 Location: delhi Posts: 571 Country:	i thought you were stressing on the "888 mil price in Dec 2006." its not a gift, that is for sure, the report has other some other errors.

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