S65

I hope this is a question which does not have too many roots in national security matters so that I might avoid additional admonishment.

I've come across many images from the Cold War where US aircraft intercepted Russian planes. In many of these instances both crews photographed each other, for what I presume would be potentially valuable technical intelligence.

Were there any procedures during these intercepts? I know the Russians have opened fire on our reconnaissance planes and brought a bunch of them down along with their crew; why didn't we extend the same courtesy back to them? This is something which produces some anger, that we allowed for peaceful interactions when they had shown so many blatantly obvious hostile actions.

In terms of procedures, I mean to ask if we attempted to contact the enemy aircraft, what we would do if we wanted them to change course, that kind of thing. What actually happened when an F-14 or an F-15 came up alongside a Bear? So far all I know is that they would keep their tail guns pointed up so we wouldn't think they were shooting at us, and both sides usually took pictures. And every once in a while, one of our guys would have a picture book to show the Russians what they were missing out on.

VarSity

I know that when the UK have intercepted Bears recently they were showing the Russian's page 3 (topless models in some of our 'Newspapers').

Sounds like good drills to me!

BBBilly

There is a lot more to it than just 'keeping up foreign relations' and exchanging centerfolds.
First of all, the a/c will NOT be identified as an enemy/hostile beforehand. Everybody has the right to fly over international waters ), so as long as they stay out of territorial waters (12nm) there is no violation of any law or regulation. The QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) will be sent up to investigate the type of aircraft, nationality and other details and report these back to its CRC (Control and Reporting Center).
What usually happens is that the QRA will join up with the A/C and try to contact it via Guard frequency or by handsignals to find out its intentions. Of course, friendly words will be exchanged and pictures will be taken (Aviation humor is worldwide... )
Today in most, if not all, cases, the a/c will turn around by itself before reaching national airspace. It it does not, the QRA will be ordered by the CRC to initiate a mission to force the A/C out of the airspace or make it land at a designated airbase. Several options are available in this case from voice warnings to engagement in the utter worst case...

Hope to have helped, first post to the forum so...

Foremost

Recently large Russian Military aircraft have been overflying here in England, immediately two RAF jets were deployed & flew one each side until eventually it banked & flew off & we're now left wondering if a new cold war is starting all over again, the Russkies say no but can we trust 'em??, the trouble is they've got us by the balls 'cos we mostly rely on them for gas & they've already threatened to cut off our supply.
I must apologise to any Russian members we may have, but I feel that I cannot trust never again trust Russia, for example it appears that sedition is apparantly being spread amongst their school children, a BBC documentary exposed this.

Officer of Engineers

The only incidents I am aware of are the ones which we crossed into their airspace.

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Chimo

Silent Hunter

OoE is right. Gary Powers was over the USSR when his aircraft was spammed out of the sky by "Guidelines" (I've just got a Osprey book on the SA-2 series and I'm surprised at how many missiles they used per successful downing).

The Tu-95s have entered NATO's Air Defence Identification Zone. That's not illegal at all, provided they're non-hostile.

If they were to enter actual UK airspace, then things would be interesting.

Foremost

I remember it well, it was a Lockheed U2, what I could never understand was why it had to take off from Peshawar, Pakistan, any idea why??

Bella

Ah! The U-2 incident!!
What I have always loved what the SR-71 ability to fly into enemy territory without being shot down because it flew to high and fast!!
I love that plane!! It's to bad they retired it!!

By the way, does anyone know what would have replaced it???

I don't mean to get off topic!!

Thanks!!

S65

Fact Sheets : RB-47H Shot Down : RB-47H Shot Down

In this instance they destroyed an RB-47 while it was not in their territory. Of course that could very well be explained away by an accident, but according to the pilot in that statement by the USAF he was under pressure. I would understand given that failures within the USSR were dealt with harshly. When it comes to instances such as KAL 007 where egregious errors were made though, coupled with this kind of history, it does seem rather suspect that they would have a persistent, trigger-happy defense plan.

I know the USS Vicennes fired on an airliner too but in that event there were actual worries of being under attack by enemy aircraft. It's inexcusable but they were in a higher threat environment, and in the RB-47 and KAL 007 case were able to examine what it was the pilots had before them before shooting.

Albany Rifles

An RB-47 and U@ do not a whole bunch make.

Let me correct a few points

1. During the Cold War, they were Soviet aircraft, not Russian. Over the open waters the aircraft were usually from Soviet Naval Aviation. They had a standard run from the North Cape to Cuba or Nicaragua and return. In the Pacific they were doing much the same.

2. While they were in international air space, no problem. However they were looking for the US and NATO carrier and surface warfare groups. They were ususally picked up by Norwegian aircraft and then handed off to UK aircraft and then USAF out of Iceland. Once over the Atlantic, the USN groups would try not to be found. However, at about the 200 mile from the carrier, the TU-95 would be met by a pair of F-8s, then F-4s, later F-14s and escorted. The Bears would try to over fly the carrier; the BARCAP would try to force them away.

3. The ROE usually included weapons tight conditions. The TU-95 rear gunner would keep his guns elevated and the USN/USAF/NATO aircraft kept their fire control radars off. If either side crossed the line, the rear guns started to move or the fire control radars were lit up.

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“When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.” — Oscar Wilde

Jimmy

Nope, that's good info. There are established procedures, especially between the US/USSR back in the day, and US/Russia now. Attempted contact over Guard using established callsigns, specific codewords to explain the situation, etc.

Satellites, UAVs, and the U-2 (oddly enough).

gunnut

Officially, the SR-71 never overflew Soviet air space.

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"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

Foremost

The Aurora, a hypersonic [mach +3] was rumoured to be a replacement for the SR-71 in the 90's but the project was deemed too costly at somewhere between eight & twelve billion dollars.

Silent Hunter

It was covering the southern areas of the USSR. Shorter distance there than from the US.

Silent Hunter

It overflew other places, I read (there's an article on an SR-71 encounter with MiG-25s in this month's Air International).

The U-2 flights over the USSR were stopped after Gary Powers. They did flights over Cuba (CORONA wasn't available) and had one shot down, which nearly started World War Three.