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Thread: Su-30MKI vs. Su-30MKK

  1. #1
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Su-30MKI vs. Su-30MKK

    so... which aircraft would come out victorious in a 1 on 1 air encounter

    the Indian Su-30MKI


    or...

    the Chinese Su-30MKK

  2. #2
    Officer of Engineers
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    According to specs and InAF air time, the SuMKI would win out ... but the Chinese don't care.

  3. #3
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    There are lots of one on one engagements in modern air warfare...or not.

    Everything is done with a wingman, which can greatly mitigate performance or agility deficiencies.

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    Is indian airforce good even though its extremely small? It has about 400 fighter jets right? Are they like very elite in taking on China's 4000? ........Just asking?

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    Konkat,

    Most of China's 4000 planes are just, pure crap. About 3000 of them are basically one way tickets to heaven.

    4000 planes is a number that warmongering in US pulled out of their ass. If they included all those crap in PLAAF's inventory, then we should include all the crap rusting in the graveyard down in Arizona and elsewhere. In that case, USAAF's inventory would not be 3,500, but somewhere around 10000 to 12000 planes.

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    kontakera
    just as ur evaluation of chineese AF is overstated ur eval of indian AF is understated .IAF has
    check out this link,
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Units/Fleet.html

    Though it dsnt have recent updates like now we have around 50 MKI/MK and another batch of Mirage2000 has arrived but it still gives a good estimates.

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    "Is indian airforce good even though its extremely small? It has about 400 fighter jets right? Are they like very elite in taking on China's 4000? ........Just asking?"

    According to the USAF pilots at my board that have flown with them, yes, they are EXTREMELY good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    According to specs and InAF air time, the SuMKI would win out ... but the Chinese don't care.
    Yes that is because Sukhoi was prohibited to sell most advanced version to China. Indeed Russian AF does not have a plane matching Su-30 MKI and will have few only in 2006. On the same time China had been having territory claims to Russia which were settled just recently. That is why Sukhoi was prohibited to sell most advanced version to China...... (India is a no threat to Russia) but China needs most advanced version to threaten Taiwan and protect against possible USAF assault. Recently Chinese millitary refused to buy Su-30MK anymore untill Russia installs most moder stuff there..... simultaneously China is trying to develop its own light fighter to get at least some independence from import of aviation products.....

    knowing how consistant they are they would develop 100% Chinese fighter in a decade or so....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaybhutani
    kontakera
    just as ur evaluation of chineese AF is overstated ur eval of indian AF is understated .IAF has
    check out this link,
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Units/Fleet.html

    Though it dsnt have recent updates like now we have around 50 MKI/MK and another batch of Mirage2000 has arrived but it still gives a good estimates.
    Thanks for that source. Do you have anything like this for China and US? I have some estimations and want to check them against other sources....

    one that I have found looks to be outdated and not very reliable
    http://mylima.com/airforce/u2.htm#U.S.A.
    http://mylima.com/airforce/c2.htm#CHINA
    Last edited by Garry; 12 Jan 05, at 18:28.

  10. #10
    Officer of Engineers
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    A CDF regular Rick Kamer did alot of pioneer work in PLAAF watching. I can contact him for you if you want to converse.

    http://china-military.org/plaaf.htm

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    A CDF regular Rick Kamer did alot of pioneer work in PLAAF watching. I can contact him for you if you want to converse.

    http://china-military.org/plaaf.htm
    Thank you Sir. I send my contact details to your box

  12. #12
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Well... in terms of BVR capabilities, which plane would site which one first? And then lets consider the armament and the radars of these two aircraft. Anyone know these stats?

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    THank u for the information, u guys were very helpful

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    The comparison of radars by the chineese website

    http://zs.njust.edu.cn/gf/detail.asp?n_id=223

    Its in chineese and the translation is out here
    From the aircraft-borne radar looks China purchases SU30MK3 the operational use
    Date: 2003-10-30 author: yqb reading: 638

    The Chinese and the information commentary on August 4th is even may the husband special telegram: The SUKHOI designing bureau and NIIP expresses SU30MKI and SU30MKM will use the BARS radar. What is different is MKM uses NATO the IFF system. The BARS 相控阵 radar will guarantee MKM and MKI by far is in the lead in the navigation electricity system aspect to MKK even MK2. The BARS radar is until now the Russia most advanced aircraft-borne 相控阵 radar. Radar compares with SU30MKK the use H001VE, the different characteristic is as follows. BARS to the isolated target biggest search angle is azimuth positive and negative 70; SU30MKK/H001VE positive and negative 60, prepare to equip SU30MK3 ZHUK-MSE amounts to positive and negative 85. BARS angle of pitch positive and negative 40; SU30MKK positive and negative 55, ZHUK-MSE 56, negative 40.

    Thus it can be seen, 机械扫描 the SU30MKK/H001VE azimuth is even inferior to 相控阵 the scanning BARS scope is big. In angle of pitch aspect, 机械扫描 the above two kind of radars angle is bigger. China 选择机械 scans the radar on SU30MK3 the intention on the one hand as a result of Russia's technical embargo, on the other hand therefore can accept the technical reason lies in it has a greater scope the scanning angle. BARS to 5 square meters airborn targets directly search distances is 120-140 kilometer. SU30MKK is 90-110 kilometer. The ZHUK-MSE 上视 distance is 150 kilometers, gets down regards the distance 140 kilometers. 尾追 the search distance separately is 60 kilometer, 60 kilometers (ZHUK-MSE for look-up), 55 kilometers (ZHUK-MSE for look down). To the bridge survey distance separately is 80-120 kilometer, 150-200 kilometer, 150 kilometers. To the tank colony's survey distance separately is 40-50 kilometer, 70-80 kilometer, 25 kilometers. To the destroyer survey distance separately is 120-150 kilometer, 150-200 kilometer, 300 kilometers.

    In the search distance aspect, ZHUK-SME and BARS basically is photogenic with, in the multi- target tracking, the attack aspect, BARS leads. In to the place, the ship goal survey aspect, ZHUK-SME also as if holds on the distance the superiority, but also similarly sacrificed the precision and the multi- goals 探测能力. The BARS radar survey precision 10 meters (maximum range precision), ZHUK-MSE divides into the 300x300 rice (R=80km), 30x30 rice (R=60km), 3x3 rice (20km). The ZHUK-SME angular speed is 60 / seconds. BARS radar average output 1-2 kW (ZHUK-SME 1.5kW), peak value 4-5kW (6kW). BARS simultaneously tracks, the attack goal quantity 15/4 (20/6 another saying); SU30MKK is 10/2, ZHUK-MSE is 10/4.

    Why does China basically accept on SU30MK3 uses the ZHUK-SME 机械扫描 radar the plan? Simultaneously has not also provided 相控阵 the radar on SU30MK2. Even may the husband think this first is based on Russia in the technical aspect retention. But this certainly is not the question complete essence. Because Russia already solved except the PERO 相控阵 radar antenna to China's exportation limit. In other words, if the Chinese sincerity hopes uses 相控阵 the radar system on the SU type fighter aircraft, the Russia side can further consider. Uses H001 the VE series radar installs the PERO 相控阵 radar antenna the way may increase radar itself the survey distance and the multi- goals attack capability. Make the multi- target tracking the quantity to increase from present 10 to at least 12, and simultaneously attacks 4. Even may the husband analyze thinks China in SU30MK2, in the MK3 series uses 机械扫描 the radar motive lies in first, the Chinese air force's air supremacy combat which is different with Malaysia future mainly will rely on J10A and quantity multitudinous SU27SK. The SU30MK series mainly serves as to the place, to the ship attack. Therefore, airborne meets the approaching enemy the multi- goals the urgency is inferior to the advanced fighter aircraft quantity few Malaysia air force. Regarding the destroyer such large-scale goal, the survey precision slightly misses and does not have too greatly hinders, the key is early discovers. Next, because own battle airplane quantity is huge, the Chinese air force meets head-on the multi- goals to SU30MK the ability request is not urgent.


    Otherwise, based on the outwire combat, establishes the " attack and defense has both " air force's need, the Chinese air force to SU30MK radar request more deviations to 远程探测 the distance, the bigger search angle. In order to not yet equips before the army in the early-warning aircraft has the broader search space. Finally, certainly is considers based on the cost, the equipment 相控阵 radar antenna airplane cost outdoes nearly 10%-20%, simultaneously also needs re- to construct the service system, trains the new talented person. Is also higher to pilot's request. This regarding massively purchases the SU series airplane, the custom the ground crew which services to the mechanical type radar says, without doubt is one big burden.

    Synthesis above, when outside China buys the operational equipment, indeed passes through the suitable degree careful consideration, why is this also the large-scale purchase item spends the time long main reason.

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    Another one

    http://www.81tj.com/article/Article_...?ArticleID=893

    SU-30MKK VS SU-30MKI
    [ Author: Is lost the famous extension pastes from: The new military clicks on the number: 122 renewals time: 2004-2-17 article input: City hunter ]
    The material demonstrates, Russia already was in luck in 1992 to China 70 " Soviet 27 " the fighter aircraft, and provided " Soviet in 1996 27 " the production line, was authorized China voluntarily produces 200 " Soviet 27 ". China fighter aircraft which purchases to Russia, but also has advanced compared to " Soviet 27 " " Soviet 30 " the fighter bomber. China in recent years bought into one batch of advanced weapons from Russia, included two displacement amounts to 8000 tons " the modern age " the level destroyer, two by the reputation were " the black hole murderer " " 基洛 " the level attack submarine, as well as the massive advanced missiles and instead dived the helicopter, 雷达设备 and so on.
      
    According to the foreign news dispatch reports, in this time purchase fighter aircraft, is most noticeable is the su-30MKK fighter bomber, this means the Chinese air force had a F-15E is more advanced than long-distance fighter bomber. But the Indian air force also purchased su-30MKI to Russia, moreover MKI was more advanced than MKK. Why not MKK and does MKI have with, please looks 下文.
      
    Whether everybody also does remember this year the Paris navigation unfolded falls one su-30, pilot only has 45 meters highly ejection in the distance ground escapes successfully. This is su-30MKI, the characteristic is the canard shaped forward wing and the vector nozzle, but because is highly too low, the vector nozzle also cannot be the airplane pulls up, the result 尾部擦地 after falls destroys.
      
    The SU-30MKI equipment has AL31F the VTC vector advancement engine. It may do about 15 changes the adjustment, thus enable MKI to have the ability implements the airborne non- convention is mobile. At present, enters the actual combat condition the ground attack bomber aircraft only has MKI has so the ability. In addition is the SU37 fighter plane, it is loaded with the AL37FU vector advancement engine. Uses changes the nozzle and SU30MKI/AL31 VTC is same. Only is former air intake diameter latter is greater than 20 millimeters, the single thrust force promoted 12%.
      
    Compared with MKI, cancels the canard shape 小翼 with the vector nozzle, therefore the mobility did not compare MKI. The news origin expression SU30MK which produces for China in the Communist Youth League city aircraft factory production, MKK last K character is the Communist Youth League city meaning. Therefore by the naming is SU30MKK, with SU30MKI which produces for India distinguishes, last I character meaning for Indian.
      
    SU30MKK and exports Indian SU30MKI compares, is slightly insufficient in other aspects. One, the MKI engine may automatically transfer the direction in the flight, MKK is AL31 the F model. Two, front MKI main plane is loaded with the small assistance wing (canard shaped forward wing), enhanced the low altitude air fight maneuvering performance. MKK such auxiliary wing. Three, MKI uses the H011M radar, the search is away from 160 kilometers, may simultaneously catch 6 goals. The MKK radar is H001M, the search is away from 100 kilometers, may simultaneously attack 2 goals. (Wing air force)

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