The Australian Debate: Abandon F-35, Buy F-22s?

**Jimmy** · 20 Mar 08,, 15:25

Super Hornets are capable against MKs. Australian pilots have a decent reputation, which in my mind gives them the advantage. I dont think Australia needs the Raptor. Certainly not for the cost.

**Tasman** · 20 Mar 08,, 21:52

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

I don't know what your current status is with your neighbors, but both Indonesia and Malaysia have Su-30Mks.

Indonesia has the Su-30 but I believe there are only two (2) plus two (2) Su-27s that are currently operational . Hardly a threat to the RAAF!

Another half dozen are planned to be purchased. Malaysia will have 18 Su-30 when their order is completed . The RAAF will have 24 of the latest Super Hornets and 71 older but heavily upgraded Hornets and present plans call for 100 F-35As. The RAAF aircraft are well maintained and armed (as are the Malaysian but perhaps not the Indonesian aircraft). The RAAF fighters will operate with support from good ground based radar report and control systems and it has AWACs on order.

I note that the USN doesn't seem concerned at the prospect of its Super Hornets tangling with the Su-30!

Tas

**BenRoethig** · 21 Mar 08,, 04:06

Originally Posted by Tasman

Indonesia has the Su-30 but I believe there are only two (2) plus two (2) Su-27s that are currently operational . Hardly a threat to the RAAF!

Another half dozen are planned to be purchased. Malaysia will have 18 Su-30 when their order is completed . The RAAF will have 24 of the latest Super Hornets and 71 older but heavily upgraded Hornets and present plans call for 100 F-35As. The RAAF aircraft are well maintained and armed (as are the Malaysian but perhaps not the Indonesian aircraft). The RAAF fighters will operate with support from good ground based radar report and control systems and it has AWACs on order.

I note that the USN doesn't seem concerned at the prospect of its Super Hornets tangling with the Su-30!

Tas

It was either the Super Hornet or decom the carriers. The Chair Force used up all the development budget.

**-{SpoonmaN}-** · 25 Mar 08,, 15:57

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

I don't know what your current status is with your neighbors, but both Indonesia and Malaysia have Su-30Mks.

Our status with our neighbours is about the best its ever been, the ADF has a formal alliance with Malaysia and Singapore in the form of the Five-Power agreement, and we help the Malaysians run their Air Defence network. The TNI (Indonesian Military) is basically a territorial defence force and will remain so for a very long time to come, plus the independence of East Timor removed the only plausible flash-point between the Commonwealth and the Republik. Besides, the point is, even if we could get you guys to agree to sell F-22s, we'd only be able to buy about 25 of them.
If the JSF completely falls apart then it'll have to be an EU warplane I suppose, but we'll see...

**BenRoethig** · 25 Mar 08,, 17:21

If JSF falls apart, it will probably be E-model super Hornets to replace A+s.

**Stan** · 25 Mar 08,, 18:28

What are the chances of the JSF programme falling completely apart though. Highly unlikely given the amount of cash already in the pot, well I hope anyways.

Although I wouldnt mind the scrapping of the F35-B so that it would force the UK to change the design of the CVF to incorporate catapults and allow us to use E-2 Hawkeye's

**cuba** · 27 Mar 08,, 02:14

If it does fall apart will we loose all our money? That'd be a bummer.

**Maxor** · 27 Mar 08,, 05:42

JFS isn't going to fall apart there is more chance of the raptors having no more orders than the JSF. The US needs fighter airframes the superbug frankly isn't that capable and for some reason everyone political in the US has derided the raptor as being far to expensive to order in mass though if ordered in mass the cost per frame drops significantly. (congressonal electibility and bugetary sense being inversely proportional who would have thunk it) This leaves the JSF for the near future unless someone gets the wiseass idea to order a bunch of golden eagles ( theoritically possible but highly unlikely) or high block falcons (also fairly unlikely but only god has a clue what retardation might occour in congressional buget sessions.)

I see the USAF getting one more squadron of F-22's not on order ( and perhaps right after the congress allowing exports to keep the line open probably be a bit stripped though this is hope of the rest of the western world to get their hands on them oreoare your ambassadors the window will be really really short to get this to happen.) because they will barebone everything else to get their hands on them and a few more JSF's to stopgap numbers which is now where optimum but will have to do.

Will also see something like what is happening with the f-15's happen with the falcons as they attempt to extend the hours on the less hard used of the rapidly aging falcon frames to simply keep up the numbers to maintain mission requirements especially considering the other frames (a-10 and f-111) that the JSF and Raptor are supposed to replace. The a-10 flies a huge number of combat loaded loiter hours that will rapidly raise the JSF in total combat hours with no way of knowing from the logs weather it was actual strain or loitering in theatre for 4 hours waiting for air support calls.

Aussies won't get the 22 if they are the only ones asking for it Japan would have to make another push or the brits ask for it along with you guys in order for congress to allow it. Cost wise who knows Canada and Britian could both afford it but both are known cheapskates but might. Japan, isreal and saudi/uae can all afford it korea or taiwan might be able to as well but none of them other than japan are close enough allies to get it exported unless its allready a bit widerspread than that.... Israel really screwed up with the lebenon thing and with the sending stuff onto china for cash they lost alot of the non-jewish support for themselves in the US which is kinda sad because they are notably more sane than the arabs save for UAE.