Expat Canuck

ARH Tiger

Even better, you're building them and assisted in developement from what I gather.

That thing is a beauty!

http://www.ausaero.com.au/Portals/3/...Gallery/16.jpg

cuba

"I can assure you that the chances of sukhoi getting into the RAAF might get the likes of APA revved up - but there is a snowballs chance in hell of that happening."


I agree. Any Australian politician (with more than half a brain) would never even consider acquiring any Russian fighter jets let alone technology.

The reasons for this a are simple:
1. Australia is not in a financial position to compete with it's neighbours in terms of size. Thus it can only compete in capabilities.
2. In times of war, Russia would be more inclined to supplying it's larger Asian clients with spare parts and armaments etc.
3. This would not make for stable relations with our US and British allies, both of which have poor relations with Russia.
4. Australian and US joint operations would suffer as Sukhoi technology is not compatable with that of American technology. Furthermore, Russia, knowing Australia's - to put it bluntly - servile nature, would not intimate these technologies.

Feanor

New member, welcome. I recommend you make an introduction thread in the appropriate forum, and complete you public profile.

scorefour

It's obvious that the whole Russian fighter thing is nothing more than bluster. What we're seeing is a whole lot of pressure being put on Washington from allies who want the F-22. We may all assume that the U.S. will never sell them, but keep in mind that a new president and administration are about to be elected in the U.S. The truth is, none of know what will happen when he or she(heaven help us) is elected.

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I want what I do not have.

Apple1

somak11

I completely agree with cuba and scorefour...and would like to add that Australia would never think about acquiring a Russian fighter because.
1. Like South Korea and to a certain extent Japan..the Aussie armed forces work under the American Defense Umbrella.
2. They are extremely worried about the rising Chinese presence in the region.
3. They have no defenses against the possibily of any terrorist threat or a small invasion on thier western frontier and cannot quantitively match potential agressors.
Hence they need American diplomatic and military support.

Bel

Personally I think Aussie if possible should go for the F-22. Mainly due to the fact that as it stands currently the F-22 is in service whereas the F-35 exists as prototypes only. One would hate to see Aussie trying to defend itself in ~2013 with Fa-18's.

Tasman

Australia has now confirmed its order for 24 FA-18F Super Hornets and the Defence Minister has left the door open for a follow on order if there are further delays with the F-35. In addition the RAAF is putting its existing Hornet fleet through a major upgrade.

What potential country do you see Australia trying to defend itself against in 2013 that could not be defeated in the air by the RAAF's force of Super Hornets and Hornets?

If the RAAF is to be involved in a conflict with a major power it will almost certainly be as part of a coalition with the USA. In the highly unlikely event of a local regional conflict, where Australia has to fight by itself, I can't see that any country in the region has an air force capable of matching it with the RAAF. The comments made by Retired AVM Criss do not stack up when we look at the numbers of modern fighters that are operational with Australia's neighbours. Indonesia, for example, has only a handful of modern Sukhois and they are lacking in weapons.

The Air Combat Capability Review leaves all options on the table but I will be very surprised if the result is not a recommendation for an all F-35 force, as currently planned, or a mixed F-35/Super Hornet force, if the F-35 suffers further delays or cost increases. For the reasons given by a number of posters, and including unavailability for export, cost, and the fact that the RAAF doesn't want them, I can't see any way that the Review will come out in favour of the F-22.

Tas

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Learn from the past. Prepare for the future.

Bel

I could be overly pessimistic, but I can't help but feel that the western world is already under attack internally and that the golden age has already slipped away. Who do I see threatening Aussie? Russia and China + minor allies.

cuba

Mate, i wish we could. I think it would be great to have F22's defending us but i'm pretty sure that the US have signed an agreement with EU which means that they can only supply the RAptor to the EU only.

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Collins Class rule!

Tasman

A congressional ban means that the US, at present, can't sell the Raptor to any other country. That obviously includes members of the EU.

Tas

LetsTalk

F-35 or F-22 would be their best choice strategically, politically, and defense wise. And as others have mentioned they know that the American supply lines will always be open to them in the case of war. I would not have waisted money on the F-18 at this time. Personally if I was Australia, I would lobby for the f-22.

VarSity

Please bear with me if this is a stupid suggestion, but given Australia may want the F-22 for defence, could a different arrangement not be reached?

I am aware that RAF pilots fly US aircraft on exchange (and vice versa) so could the US and Australia come to an agreement where Australia ‘rent’ F-22’s?

For example Australia pays for the F-22’s, and Australia pilots fly them from a US base. But the actual Airframes remain the property of the US Government.
The US gets cheaper F-22’s (and therefore more of them), gets to renegotiate use of bases in Australia (if needed, I have no idea) and as the F-22’s run off a joint Australian/US base the US can handle all their security concerns.

…am I living in a fantasy world?

BenRoethig

First, the raptor costs 2.5 times as much as the Super Hornet.

Second, the F-22 is an interceptor. The F-111 is a bomber. The only air to ground options you have with the Raptor are a pair of 1000lbs JDAMs or 2 4-packs of 250lbs SDBs. The Raptor isn't cleared for external air to ground or air to sea munitions. If Australia wants it, they'll have to pay for integration. It also isn't cleared of ASRAAM.

Third, the F-22 and F-35 are different types. The F-35 is a medium weight strikefighter with a primary air to ground role. Much like the later model Falcon and Hornet. The Raptor is faster and can turn and climb much better. The Lightning has a larger air to ground payload and an internal optics package.

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F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

BenRoethig

I don't know what your current status is with your neighbors, but both Indonesia and Malaysia have Su-30Mks.