Rossiman

India, Russia Cooperating re: "Fifth-Generation Fighter" (defense procurement, military acquisition, defence purchasing)

This plane has a great avionics and weapons package how is it compared to the f/18 Super hornet and the F-22/35?

Tronic

Which one? PAK-FA (5th gen) or the MKI? Nothing yet known about pak-fa; as for the MKI, it uses Israeli, French and Indian avionics and weapon systems though the Hornets now have AESA, major advantage. And shouldn't be compared to a Raptor; F-22 has huge advantages, in current scenario, it will chew up its opposition, no sweat!

__________________
Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

Rossiman

i am aware that the raptor will eat this for breakfast but lets say 2-3+ vrs a raptor does it have a chance

Tronic

Just think of it this way, if the MKI can't see the Raptor, then no matter how many planes you put up in the air, you wont touch him. Though the Raptor pilot will certainly have a nice big cloud on his radar and can engage (or not) on his own conditions.

Rossiman

Thats what i thought you where gonna say thanks for clearing it up. Though the F-16/F-18 variants vrs the Su-30MKI basically comes down to the pilot and who sees who first.

ind07

Su-30 MKI would see the enemy aircraft first as its radar is more powerful than those of F/A-16/18

wabpilot

Guess again. The more powerful radar of the MKI means it will show up on the F-16/18 etc. RWR first.

Feanor

How does that work? Could you elaborate please?

zraver

----------- = detectable radar beam emission

/////////////= detectable return reflection from radar

The reflection has to have enough strength to not just reach a target but make it back to the sending unit. A unit listening passively will detect the primary emissions long before it enters detection range and allows the emitter to bounce signals off of it.

Radar emitter //////////////////////////-------------------------------------- RWR

This is one of the major advantages of the F-22 it's LPI (Low Probability of intercept) AESA reverses this meaning it can see the enemy long before even its radar emissions can be seen.

F-22---------//////////////////////////////enemy

Rossiman

Yes, you are right the F-22's radar is capable of seeing out to 150 miles, and we all know its more than that. (classified) this is what makes the Raptor so effective is it's first hit kill technology.

Feanor

So weaker radar = better?

Rossiman

Not necessarily



F-22 Raptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Avionics

* RWR (Radar warning receiver): 250 nmi (463 km) or more
* Radar: 125-150 miles (200-240 km) against 1 m² targets (estimated range)
The F-22's avionics include BAE Systems E&IS (formerly Sanders Associates) radar warning receiver (RWR) AN/ALR-94,[25] and the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-77 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. The AN/APG-77 is possibly the most capable radar in active service, with both long-range target acquisition and low probability of interception of its own signals by enemy aircraft.

The AN/ALR-94 is a passive receiver system capable of detecting the radar signals in the environment. Composed of more than 30 antennae smoothly blended into the wings and fuselage, it is described by the former head of the F-22 program at Lockheed Martin Tom Burbage as "the most technically complex piece of equipment on the aircraft." With greater range (250+ nmi) than the radar, it enables the F-22 to limit its own radar emission which might otherwise compromise its stealth. As the target approaches, AN/ALR-94 can cue the AN/APG-77 radar to keep track of its motion with a narrow beam, which can be as focused as 2° by 2° in azimuth and elevation.[26]

The AN/APG-77 AESA radar, designed for air-superiority and strike operations, features a low-observable, active-aperture, electronically-scanned array that can track multiple targets in all kinds of weather. The AN/APG-77 changes frequencies more than 1,000 times per second to reduce the chance of being intercepted. The radar can also focus its emissions to overload enemy sensors, giving the aircraft an electronic-attack capability.[27]

The radar’s information is processed by two Raytheon Common Integrated Processor (CIP)s. Each CIP operates at 10.5 billion instructions per second and has 300 megabytes of memory. Information can be gathered from the radar and other onboard and offboard systems, filtered by the CIP, and offered in easy-to-digest ways on several cockpit displays, enabling the pilot to remain on top of complicated situations. The Raptor’s software is composed of over 1.7 million lines of code, most of which concerns processing data from the radar.[28] The radar has an estimated range of 125-150 miles, though planned upgrades will allow a range of 250 miles or more in narrow beams.

Rossiman

Sukhoi Su-30MKI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Radar

The forward facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar.[4]

Features:

* The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features.
* For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21, for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140–160 km.
* The radar can track 15 air targets and engage the 4 most dangerous simultaneously. These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters.
* The Su-30MKI can function as a mini-AWACS as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to at least 4 other aircraft.
* The radar can detect ground targets such as tanks at 40–50 km.
* The N011M is claimed to detect large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and small sized ones at a distance of 120 km.

The Su-30MKI can be integrated with the BrahMos cruise missile, becoming an anti-shipping platform.

Future upgrades:

* Future upgrade plans include new gimbals for the antenna mount to increase the field of view to about 90-100 degrees to both sides. New software will enable a Doppler-sharpening mode and the capability to engage up to eight air targets simultaneously.
* By 2010, when the first totally-built Su-30MKI will roll out from HAL, it could be equipped with a new phased array radar called the Irbis (Snow Leopard), which will replace the N011M Bars. These reports are yet to be confirmed by the Indian Air Force or official sources. The Irbis has been widely misreported to be an active phased array. It is not. NIIP in Vzlet, 2006 (a journal edited by noted aviation journalist A. Fomin) details the Irbis as a high power passive electronically scanned array, built using the experience of the Bars project. However, it will have a lighter antenna derived from the NIIP Osa (Wasp) radar, new servos to rotate the antenna in both axes, with a greater field of regard (adding up to a total of 100 degrees), and an entirely new architecture with dual travelling wave tubes, giving a range of 400 km against a 3 meter square target (RCS). Using new high speed computers, the Irbis will be able to track 30 targets and engage 8. It will also be KS-172 capable.

Radar modes:

* Air-to-Air : velocity search, range while search, track while scan, target ID, close combat modes.
* Air-to-Surface : Real beam mapping, DBS mapping, SAR mapping, moving ground target selection, tracking and measuring of ground target coordinates.
* Anti-shipping : Sea surface search, moving sea targets selection, tracking and measuring of sea target coordinates, sea target ID.

Feanor

I'm sorry that was totally over my head. All I could get out of it is that somehow the F-22 has a passive ''radar'' of sorts?

Rossiman

Well they are both passive radars. The F-22 being the AESA and the Su-30MKI being NIIP.

Think of it this way you have a Seal team surrounded by Insurgents, you are outnumberd greatly but you have 30 scout snipers. The Insurgents have 20 snipers which one is gonna win? Well you have the Seals that are one of the best in the world or Insurgents using bad rifles with bad accuracy, which one do you think will win.

The number's game comes back into perspective and the fact that our snipers own =). This is the concept that the AESA radar uses, it hides it's own radar signatures and it has the ability to search out with 1000's of radar waves to track there's without being tracked on radar. Sorry if my example didn't make sense lol.... it can pick up fighter's, bomber's,tank's or whatever it needs to from 100+ miles away and destroy it.