gunnut

Wow, very impressive.

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HistoricalDavid

That is a seriously graphic demonstration. Normally we chat endlessly about G-pulling and ECM and flares and sales brochure statistics but there is an indisputable demonstration of superb off-boresight and maneuveraility and flare-dodging capability.

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GGTharos

Why? That's how imaging works

GGTharos

Yes, it is. As in it isn't a reticle scan seeker. And?

Yes, it does look for a blob of pixels. That is how imaging systems work - they track a blob of pixels of a given color and size.

Which doesn't matter, because all it is to a computer is a blob of pixels

And how do you know that? The technology does exist but I don't recall whether it has left the laboratory yet or not besides which, at longer ranges the target would be a dot.

While there exist Kalman filters and various refinements to the PN algorithm, the most efficient algorithm in general for interception -is- proportional navigation.


That is too bad - but were those speculative sites or factual?

HistoricalDavid

I thought it tracked the outline and not the blob because this would make it immune to flares and the sun.

GGTharos

There is no difference between an outline and a blob as seen there - both are collections of pixels. The sun can be rejected by other means, same with flares.

avon1944

The word 'blob' tends to refer to a random group within a form while, an image refers to a group but, has distinguishable features. As you view the Sidewinder approaching the F-4 target (in the You Tube video), you can see definition within the form. These definitions allow the computer to distinguish between types of aircraft as well as the exact aspect of the target. [EXAMPLE -Certain aspect angles at certain ranges, there are similarities between the forms of an F-4 Phantom and a MiG-21!]

The newest generation of IR missiles can track a target through the passage of the sun. As with flares, they put out consentrated heat compared to the exhaust of an engine. The frequencies of IR energy of a flare is a wider range than the exhaust of an engine. Flares tend to transmit more UV energy in addition to the IR energy than engine exhaust does.

Adrian

scorefour

I've recently read that the 9X is being developed with the Lock On After Launch (LOAL) capability. Does anyone know if this has been completed yet? This would explain how an F-35 could potentially carry the 9X internally, and why the ASRAAM can be carried internally. The problem as I understand it was summed up by a pilot quite well. He said it's like stuffing a pit bull in a sack, shaking it up and letting it out. He's going to bite the first thing he sees. For BVR engagements, LOAL is great, but for WVR, the situation can change so quickly that LOAL isn't nearly as effective, hence the trapeze on the F-22. According to the article I was reading, the LOAL feature will even enable a 9X to be fired at a target behind the aircraft. Anyone have any other info?

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Tin Man

The AIM-9x and ASRAAM IIR seeker can do better than that, the processors can even target a specific point on an aircraft, ie cockpit, engines, fuselage., the dual band seeker gives the contrast to allow this. AVON, I agree, I have read that the missile could have a "Library" onboard that allows it to recognize the target, although I would think similar systems on board the shooter aircraft would take care of that.

AFAIK, the 9x already has LOAL capability but this is not in USN or USAF doctrine to use that feature for the reasons stated. The RAF see these issues differently with the ASRAAM, allowing LOAL although I guess the use of LOAL would be highly restrictive.

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scorefour

Good info. Did I also read that ASRAAM will be the primary missile carried on UK F-35's?

Tin Man

SCOREFOUR, yes, the ASRAAM will be the prime weapon and it interesting that this missile has not been cleared for external carriage... The bays are "wired" for AMRAAM as well, although it remains to be seen if any of these missiles will be carried by UK F-35`s.
It will be a pure strike aircraft in RAF service and traditionally strikers don`t carry long range AAM`s. I think the RN will push for AMRAAM for their aircraft as their birds will be used for fleet air defence and strike, although the MOD will argue that the Type 45 destroyer will negate the need for RN F-35 AMRAAM carriage. This is the world seen through the dark glasses of the MOD, always with an eye on saving cash!

scorefour

TIN MAN, won't Meteor be the weapon of choice when it comes online? Are they just waiting for that to happen instead of wasting their time on AMRAAM?

zraver

Zinja, building on what WAB said...

The F-22's AESA is also LPI (Low Probability of Intercept) Quantifying the Differences in Low Probability of Intercept Radar Waveforms Usin As such the F-22 can use it's radar to lock and launch from medium and long ranges without giving itself away. In fact in exercises the LPI was so good the F-22 was able to use its guns without being detected.

What this means is the F-22 has minutes to detect (RWR) minutes more to interrogate (AESA LPI) and choose how to act in complete stealth.

The Russian's are making big noise abut thier IRST which they probably correctly claim can detect the F-22 between 10-15 km or 1/10-1/20 the range in which they have been under active radar surveillance.

The SU or Mig family has no way to force the Raptor to fight. Even if they can use thier superb agility to dodge 2 out of every three missiles fired at them each Raptor can shoot down 2 aircraft and then fly home without ever entering the SU/Migs IRST range. I do not know how many planes are in a typical Russian aero-regiment 920?) but getting 8 of thier buddies splashed by a flight of 4 Raptors without even seeing thier killers will break any pilots will.

That assassin like ability will even aid American legacy fighters. The USAF and USN are both well known for setting up aerial traps and ambushes. Flankers attempting to counter a conventional strike package then are under extreme pressure to launch from long range and then leave the area as soon as possible to avoid the Raptors they have to assume are in the area.

Vs. anyone with less than 4.5 gen fighters the F-22 can press its attack home and a flight of 4 can potentially destroy a large percentage of any non-great power's air force in a single mission. Even a great power would have trouble absorbing the loss. For example China has 204 modern fighters (remeber the AESA LPI lets the F-22 picks its targets at leisure. If a flight of 4 Raptors can each get 4 kills from 6 missiles (16 kills) the PLAAF just lost of its modern fighter force to just lost about 8% of its total numbers to just 4 American planes which themselves number around 180.

Now to make the future even more dreary for non-US air forces. The USAF is working on a fighter sized laser with 10's of Km of range. Imagine if you will that it is 2020 and the US is facing off against some one who has bought a lot of the modern Russian jets (non-PAK FA). Lets even given them the technology to detect the LPI. If the F-22 ha sa speed of light weapon then the passive receivers and aim the weapon- the LPI can do a quick lock and zap the enemy airframe gets flash boiled and the LPI shuts off all in just 1-2 seconds. On-zap-off, On-zap-off, On-zap-off over and over again.

This ability to not only dominate but intimidate its foes and the promise of beign able to do so for decades is why the F-22 is #1.

Tin Man

The Meteor for UK F-35 just isn`t funded. Meteor is slated for Typhoon, earlier this year, or last year, the UK MOD cut the total buy of future Meteor weapons. That doesn`t bode well for F-35 carriage, at least in UK service.

The RAF have just ordered large AMRAAM C-5 stocks, as the "B" reached it`s "use by date". The "B`s" were hand me downs from the Sea Harrier anyway. The best we can hope for is AMRAAM for F-35, Meteor for F-35 seems a dead duck at the moment
By all accounts, ASRAAM is one hell of a missile. I can see UK F-35`s just carrying this IR nissile, just as GR.9`s carry heaters only now.

gunnut

Why not standardize the long range missiles on the Meteor? Carrying 2 in the inventory is more costly.