Thread: Senators seek boost to F-22 fighter fleet

We do need more raptors having 10-15 squadrons would help are air superiority tremendously. Not that anyone is even close to it but still... LOL, we could use 300+ F22's.

And the more you buy the cheaper they are in the long run we should be exporting less capable versions to are close allies.

In 2010-2015 if we where to export f22s to allies we could have 500 or more raptors but instead we are looking at around 183?

Look at it like this 500 f22s would be able to take on 2000+ Su-30MKI's without being challenged, i think Red Flag is the hardest thing are boys are gonna have to go up against.

Originally Posted by Tronic

Just think of it this way, if the MKI can't see the Raptor, then no matter how many planes you put up in the air, you wont touch him. Though the Raptor pilot will certainly have a nice big cloud on his radar and can engage (or not) on his own conditions.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Sir, please don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.

I don't know anything about flying a jet so I wouldn't be impressed even if a Raptor came up and bit me on the ass.

I've gone to an airshow almost every year of my life. I've seen the Flanker and Su-37 videos. I've seen the CF-18 demos, the F-15 and F-16 demos.

I've now seen the Raptor do everything those guys did, and more. I've never seen a Flanker sit in the air and point his nose wherever he wanted side to side. I've got some short video clips taken on my (non video) camera if anyone has extra bandwidth to host it.

Edit: Exporting a "less capable" variant of the Raptor isnt even a viable option. A good portion of the internal structure and engine inlet design is classified.

Well thats a price we might have to pay cause the price is just to high. Exporting would only help in the long run.
Japan buying 100+ F-22's would lower the price tremendously.
Australia/Israel/Canada/Uk buying 100+ combined would only help.

Yes, i know that it is highly classified material but unless you want to pay a great deal of taxes, then we are going to have to figure something out.

Originally Posted by Rossiman

Well thats a price we might have to pay cause the price is just to high. Exporting would only help in the long run.
Japan buying 100+ F-22's would lower the price tremendously.
Australia/Israel/Canada/Uk buying 100+ combined would only help.

Yes, i know that it is highly classified material but unless you wanna pay a great deal of taxes, then we are gonna have to figure something out.

If this future Navy SEAL is going to impress me (something that he has not so far been too successful at doing) he might like to use words other than 'wanna' and 'gonna'. It would be also be nice if he could contribute something useful to the discussion.

Fixed it for you sorry about my grammar, haven't finished highschool yet sir.
Also, how have I failed to contribute something useful? I am pointing out ways to lower the production cost of the F-22.

Lower the production cost a huge security cost. Personally I do not at all think it would be worth the minimal cuts in price. Nobody is going to buy an F-22 fleet as large as the US is already committed to, and to have a significant volume discount they'd have to sell at least 100 more.

The RAF wont buy it. The Aussies wont buy it. Canada wont buy it. Israel would love to buy it, but at this point I wouldnt sell them anything newer than the F-15I anyway. Japan wants it, but doesnt at all need it and I think they would figure that out before placing a huge order. South Korea cant pay for many of them, either. Saudi Arabia wont buy them, and we wouldnt sell it to them anyway. At most we could sell probably 20-30 airframes, and that's if we had 2 buyers.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

You're more correct than you know. AIRLIFT is where airpower really comes into its own.

Do you think more C-17s should be produced? It seems a superb and proven aircraft to me, capable of short takeoffs, capable of carrying a combat-ready M1 but no more - which is ideal, you don't want something too big like the C-5 which is IIRC suffering airframe stress problems. 160~ have been produced so the costs should be falling quite nicely. In any case the C-5s have to be replaced. It would be pretty good for the budget to see the tri-level strategic airlift of the US (the recently retired C-141, the C-5 and C-17) be replaced by a single, proven design.

Yes this is what I have been stressing is that are heavy lift program needs work. We need the C-130J, new Tankers, we need a heavy lifter/better than the C-17 and the C-5. The aircraft have a huge payload, but its not enough for todays scenarios.

We need something that can airlift 200+ tons or 2 MBT's. Imagine how much greater are capability would be..... don't the Russian's have a heavy transport that can lift in excess of 250 tons.... we need something like that lol.

Lockheed Offers USA a $6B C-130J Deal (defense procurement, military acquisition, defence purchasing)

Airlift without air superiority at least locally is a terrible idea as you are merely loosing alot of men and equimpent in a rapid manner. Establishing air superiority is first then airlift though newer more capable AMC planes would be a big benifiet as the US current opperations scheduale is chewing through the service life of the current planes fairly quickly. A new superheavy lifter if it can be done realatively inexpensively and produced in large numbers would be good as would a complete reloading fo the tanker fleet. (which is also a fairly big portion of the airlift fleet.) . C-130's are nice but can't carry a MBT and are really not useful for transcontinential flight on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Rossiman

Look at it like this 500 f22s would be able to take on 2000+ Su-30MKI's without being challenged, i think Red Flag is the hardest thing are boys are gonna have to go up against.

So the F22 is to take on IAF? )

No one but India will fly the MKI, and India will never field 2000+ of this bird; it is not there to take on the Raptor. F22 vs MKI is a very null comparison, they are not in the same class or even of the same generation.