Best Air Force in Europe

**kompikos** · 19 Aug 07,, 16:47

An other poll and discussion on which Air Force do you consider the best in Europe in terms of the combination of Equipment, Personnel, Pilots and Organization. Take time to support your vote.

**~~Feanor~~** · 19 Aug 07,, 17:10

What another one?

**kompikos** · 19 Aug 07,, 17:29

Originally Posted by Feanor

What another one?

Yeeeeah! It's never bad to have one, Air Forces change day by day!

**dalem** · 19 Aug 07,, 21:26

USAF. No explanation really required there.

-dale

**gunnut** · 19 Aug 07,, 21:52

Originally Posted by dalem

USAF. No explanation really required there.

-dale

Maybe he should have phrased it "best European air force."

**Repatriated Canuck** · 20 Aug 07,, 07:26

USAF isn't in the list so I couldn't vote.

**~~Feanor~~** · 20 Aug 07,, 10:03

When I said "another one?'' I was referring to the pointless and uneducated comparison thread that quickly degenerates into an argument about one limited aspect.

To actually compare European airforces you would have to compare all the airplanes in them, the training programs, the number of flight hours the pilots get, the pilot/aircraft ratios, the deployment, the AA coverage of the airbases and facilities, the overall aircraft employment doctrine, and many other things. You could write thousands of pages on the matter only to come to the conclusion that you need more information to accurately compare. Instead all of this was thrown together into a single thread where people do nothing but state their personal (most likely rather uneducated) opinion (usually based on random pieces of inaccurate info they pick up in news/movies/stereotypes). In short . . . . this is a waste of time.

**kompikos** · 20 Aug 07,, 14:50

Originally Posted by Feanor

When I said "another one?'' I was referring to the pointless and uneducated comparison thread that quickly degenerates into an argument about one limited aspect.

To actually compare European airforces you would have to compare all the airplanes in them, the training programs, the number of flight hours the pilots get, the pilot/aircraft ratios, the deployment, the AA coverage of the airbases and facilities, the overall aircraft employment doctrine, and many other things. You could write thousands of pages on the matter only to come to the conclusion that you need more information to accurately compare. Instead all of this was thrown together into a single thread where people do nothing but state their personal (most likely rather uneducated) opinion (usually based on random pieces of inaccurate info they pick up in news/movies/stereotypes). In short . . . . this is a waste of time.

You know, you are right about most of what you've said but you are very wrong about it being a waste of time. In most cases actually happens what you've written and from my point of view even this, "uneducated" as you've put it, aspect is a right that has everyone who takes part in a public forum.

However these threads, at least this is a reason I create threads, have the goal to educate people through discussion. Not everyone here is a military expert and we sure aren't going to become one just by taking part in a forum.

BUT, some people before voting have the need to make some research or read views and arguments. This whole process is vital to an aviation or military, in general, enthusiast.

So don't downgrade this process. No one forces anybody not to take all the factors you've mentioned into account and write something about them. This might actually make more people do their research to create an opposite argument if they disagree. I don't see how this can be a waste of time.

**kompikos** · 20 Aug 07,, 14:53

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

USAF isn't in the list so I couldn't vote.

Yea USAF is great, but what does it have to do with European Air Forces?

**~~Feanor~~** · 20 Aug 07,, 18:55

Well then lets start by comparing the general types of aircraft and how many/what they are each country has. We can compare multi-role fighters, interceptors, ground attack planes, tactical bombers, strategic bombers, tankers and AWACS.

**Stan187** · 20 Aug 07,, 19:11

Originally Posted by kompikos

Yea USAF is great, but what does it have to do with European Air Forces?

As was mentioned previously, the name of the thread is not European Air Forces, but Best Air Force IN Europe

**gunnut** · 20 Aug 07,, 22:11

Originally Posted by kompikos

Yea USAF is great, but what does it have to do with European Air Forces?

Sorry. That's another annoy habit I have.

I am VERY particular about words and wording.

USAF is not a European air force, but it is the best air force in Europe.

If you want to limit the discussion to a European air force, then we have to ask what you want from an air force. A very good defensive force may not be good at power projection, and vice versa.

Swedish air force operates one of the best light fighters in the world, the Gripen. It is superb for the self defense role envisioned by the Swedes. But it has short range and not a very good bomb truck.

The Royal air force is in transition between the Tornado/Harrier and Typhoon/JSF. There are gaps in its capabilities. But there's probably no better European air force at power projection right now.

It's very hard to compare capabilities without a mission profile.

**~~Feanor~~** · 21 Aug 07,, 04:41

Well then wouldn't we have to say best at accomplishing it's purpose? For example like you said the Swedish airforce is intended to defend Swedish skies, where as say the U.K. airforce is meant for power projection. Which ever one is better at doing what it's meant to do as part of it's nations doctrine would be the better one.

**gunnut** · 21 Aug 07,, 06:30

Originally Posted by Feanor

Well then wouldn't we have to say best at accomplishing it's purpose? For example like you said the Swedish airforce is intended to defend Swedish skies, where as say the U.K. airforce is meant for power projection. Which ever one is better at doing what it's meant to do as part of it's nations doctrine would be the better one.

Yes, I suppose you can say that. But then it's very hard to compare who's better.

Is Sweden better at protecting Sweden than the Royal Airforce at deploying around the world supporting British endeavors?

I don't know. I'm not qualified to make that call.

**Officer of Engineers** · 21 Aug 07,, 06:38

Power projection means that you intent to wreck the other guy's home in the fight. Even if the bad guy wins, his home is wreck. Home defence means your own home is wrecked regardless of if you win or lose. So, who prefers the Swedish model?