2008 Election | The Pub | The Field Mess | The Staff College | Bookmark WAB


Go Back   World Affairs Board > Military Forums > Military Aviation
Register FAQ WAB RSS Feed Forum GuidelinesMembers List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Greetings, and welcome to the World Affairs Board!

The World Affairs Board is one of the premier forums for the discussion of the pressing geopolitical issues of our time. Topics include foreign & defense policy, international security, military developments, weapons proliferation, terrorism, international strategic affairs, and politics. Our membership includes many from military, defense industry, and government backgrounds with expert knowledge on a wide range of topics. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so why not register a World Affairs Board account and join our community today?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-09-2007, 10:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
HKDan
Contributor
 
HKDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-23-06
Location: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Hangzhou, wherever the wife drags me
Posts: 406
Country:
Elmendorf welcomes F-22 Raptor

Elmendorf welcomes F-22 Raptor

Elmendorf welcomes F-22 Raptor

by Tech. Sgt. Mikal Canfield
3rd Wing Public Affairs

8/8/2007 - ELMENDORF AIR FORCE BASE, Alaska (AFPN) -- It was a historic day for Elmendorf as the base officially welcomed the first of its F-22 Raptor fleet during a ceremony here Aug. 8.

Elmendorf became the second operational base and the first Pacific Air Forces installation to receive the Air Force's new superiority fighter.

"These incredible airframes are ushering in a new day in the Land of the Midnight Sun," said Gen. Paul Hester, PACAF commander. "The unmatched capabilities of this superb airplane are simply unbelievable. It furnishes our Airmen with unrivaled air supremacy and provides us with the most lopsided and unfair advantages ever seen in the air power age."

The F-22s will join the 3rd Wing and Air Force Reserve Command's 477th Fighter Group here. The 477th FG is a classic associate unit, in that the aircraft are the property of the active-duty Air Force, but are flown and maintained by Air Force reservists as well. The 477th FG becomes the first Air Force Reserve unit to operate and maintain the F-22.

"Elmendorf Airmen are not strangers to new aircraft and missions. The difference this time is we are teamed with our unrivaled wingmen of the Air Force Reserve," said Col. Tom Tinsley, 3rd Wing commander. "These professional Airmen will be integrated into every part of F-22 operations and are bringing Total Force Integration to a new level, a level where we can truly say we are no longer working toward Total Force Integration, but rather we are a total force."

Approximately 40 aircraft are scheduled to be delivered to Elmendorf, with 20 aircraft designated for the 90th Fighter Squadron and the other 20 to the 525th Fighter Squadron which will be activated later this year. The Air Force Reserve will fly the F-22 as part of the 302nd Fighter Squadron.

The 90th FS, one of the Air Force's oldest fighter squadrons, celebrates its 90th anniversary Aug. 20. The squadron flew F-15E Strike Eagles before receiving the Raptor.

The F-22 performs both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions allowing full realization of operational concepts vital to the 21st century Air Force.

"The F-22 is our premier fighter and it will continue our tradition of owning the skies over the battlefield," said Capt. James Byrne, 90th FS F-22 pilot. "Our job is to be prepared to give our country the security it needs today and tomorrow. In order to achieve that end, we cannot judge the nature of future conflicts based on those of today and must train and equip our forces for operations across the full spectrum of conflict."

The captain also emphasized the operational benefits of flying the world's most advanced fighter, such as improvements in pilot situational awareness.

"The F-22 has the ability to display more information to the pilot, in a more logical fashion, than any other fighter in the world. At the same time, the Raptor degrades the enemy's awareness," said Captain Byrne. "Instead of the pilot fusing information from multiple inputs and having to build situational awareness from scratch, the F-22 presents the pilot with a 360-degree picture of the threat environment he is operating in. This frees up the pilot to focus on managing tactics rather than information."

"The bottom line is the Raptor pilot has a huge advantage against other aircraft, and it will maintain that advantage for years to come," he added.

Although the F-22 officially arrived Wednesday, base maintainers have been learning how to maintain the aircraft using four F-22 maintenance trainer aircraft at Elmendorf.

"The prior aircraft experience has been phenomenal in preparing the non-qualified maintainers on all aspects of the jet," said Senior Master Sgt. Pete Allan, 90th Aircraft Maintenance Unit Production superintendent. "The on-the-job training has been second-to-none, and this has enabled the squadron to be successful from the start. Without this capability, we would not have been able to provide the flyable aircraft required to keep the pilots qualified."

The advanced technology of the F-22 extends far beyond the pilot-friendly aircraft's operability. Maintainers are excited about the many improvements that will help make their jobs easier.

"The aircraft is extremely integrated, providing maintainers with fault codes that enable maintenance personnel to troubleshoot with relative ease," said Sergeant Allan. "The aircraft also primarily uses one level maintenance components; this means that we remove and replace the parts. There are very few items that get removed, repaired, and then re-installed. This reduces the time that is required to repair, because we are not waiting on another shop or work center."

That's not to say that maintaining the aircraft, particularly during the Alaska winters, will be easy.

"I think the winter weather will prove to be the largest challenge," Sergeant Allan said. "The first year will certainly be the most difficult, but I think subsequent winters will get easier as we gain more experience with the reaction of the aircraft."

Elmendorf will continue receiving F-22s over the next couple years, with all 40 Raptors scheduled to be in place by December 2009.

During the ceremony, Colonel Tinsley emphasized the importance of the F-22 and what its presence means to ensuring America's freedom.

"This is not only a historic day for Alaska and America, today stands as another clear message to those who may threaten our freedoms," Colonel Tinsley added. "We stand vigilant, ready to defend those freedoms with the world's best Air Force."
HKDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 10:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
VarSity
Contributor
 
Join Date: 06-11-07
Location: Leicester
Posts: 465
Country:
"most lopsided and unfair advantages ever seen in the air power age."

Unfair? That just made me laugh. It like he thinks the F-22 is cheating at cards or something?!

Why the hell are reservists getting F-22;s? That makes no sense to me? Why give your best weapon to part timers?
VarSity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 10:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
HKDan
Contributor
 
HKDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-23-06
Location: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Hangzhou, wherever the wife drags me
Posts: 406
Country:
The F-22s are officially part of an active unit. The reservists will get to fly them sometimes, but will not be getting F-22s of their own. Basically they share them. The 1st Fighter Wing at Langley has a similar arrangement with a National Guard unit.

Last edited by HKDan : 08-09-2007 at 13:12 PM.
HKDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 20:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
Jimmy
Military Professional
 
Join Date: 11-16-05
Posts: 931
Country:
Those part-timers also deploy just as often as the active duty folks, nowadays.
Jimmy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 21:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Scrapdog
Regular
 
Scrapdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-07
Location: Virginia
Posts: 36
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarSity View Post
"most lopsided and unfair advantages ever seen in the air power age."

Unfair? That just made me laugh. It like he thinks the F-22 is cheating at cards or something?!

Why the hell are reservists getting F-22;s? That makes no sense to me? Why give your best weapon to part timers?
VarSity - just a head's up - I'm one of those guard guys flying the F-22. You have a problem with that?

Edit: By the way - the Air National Guard/Reserves have now been flying the F-22 for over 2 years. Some of the most experienced instructors in the F-22 right now at Langley are part timers for the guard.

Again, I'll ask - you have a problem with that?

Last edited by Scrapdog : 08-09-2007 at 21:45 PM.
Scrapdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 22:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
dalem
Lord High Hullabalooster
Senior Contributor
 
dalem's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-23-04
Location: Columbia Heights, MN
Posts: 8,325
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapdog View Post
Again, I'll ask - you have a problem with that?
Relax, Scrappy. We're all just folk here.

-dale
dalem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 01:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
Scrapdog
Regular
 
Scrapdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-07
Location: Virginia
Posts: 36
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalem View Post
Relax, Scrappy. We're all just folk here.

-dale
Dale - no sweat...I'll relax, but let's let the man respond. Obviously he's got some issues with part time guardsman/reservists flying high performance fighters with his "what the hell are reservists flying the F-22" quote. Let's get it out in the open. I can gaurantee you some of the finest, highest quality fighter pilots are guardsmen/reservists. I know, I've flown both on the active duty and now in the air national guard.

So again, VarSity...for your integrity's sake...please explain your issue with reservists flying F-22's? You want to make this a "I'm better than you are match?" No sweat, I could fly circles around you anyday.
Scrapdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 02:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
VarSity
Contributor
 
Join Date: 06-11-07
Location: Leicester
Posts: 465
Country:
I seemed to have the wrong impression as to what a reservist is in the US.

I was under the impression they didn't get allot of air time, and where only called on in emergency's/as a reserver. They seem to do allot more than I first assumed, wasn't trying to offend anyone, just had this image of 12 F-22's sitting in a hanger for 9 month whilst the pilots were working in the bank.

Basically I had the impression reservists didn't do anything. That they had no job to perform unless someone actually invaded the USA. Kinda like a home guard/dads army. Clearly I was mistaken in that (Google is my friend)

Hell you prob can fly circles around me, last time I tried getting into a plane the stewardess told me I was to young for a scotch, im 22 ffs! Its ok tho, had a coke instead.
VarSity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 03:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
HKDan
Contributor
 
HKDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-23-06
Location: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Hangzhou, wherever the wife drags me
Posts: 406
Country:
Scrapdog,

I have aquestion that maybe you can answer for me. In all of the sources that I have been recently reading it states that Elmendorf will have all of 40 the Raptors that it is going to get by December of 2009(including official AF press releases). That seems like a long time to me, and runs contrary to sources that i have seen in the past stating that the Third Fighter Wing would be fully equipped by Dec. 2008. I had been under the impression that although Elmendorfs first 6 F-22s arrived yesterday, there had been F-22s designated for the 90th FS operating at Langley for several months now(I think since Jan. of this year). The 525th FS is scheduled to get its first Raptors at the end of the year IIRC. With production running at 20 a year as far as I can tell, why is it going to take three years for Elmendorf to get 40 aircraft? Is another squadron going to stand up before Elmendorf gets its full compliment? Or did the two squadrons at Langley not have their full number of F-22s until recently? I had thought that they were fully equipped by last winter.

Last edited by HKDan : 08-10-2007 at 03:54 AM.
HKDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 04:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
glyn
Military Professional
 
glyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK
Posts: 6,545
I can see where VarSity has been misled into thinking that reservists and the most modern machines in the inventory should be kept apart. That was the reason the UK government of the day gave to disband the RNVR and RAFVR flying units when the Treasury was actually just looking for ways to save money.
__________________
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.
glyn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 08:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
wabpilot
Military Professional
 
wabpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-05-03
Location: Commuting between Dresden and Ft. Worth
Posts: 558
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarSity View Post
I seemed to have the wrong impression as to what a reservist is in the US.

I was under the impression they didn't get allot of air time, and where only called on in emergency's/as a reserver.
Most USAF Reserves and USN Reserves in aviation are airline pilots, thus they get more flying time than the active duty folks. Their USAF or USN flying is, therefore, dedicated to training on the tactical parts of their mission. Our reserves now get called up quite frequently. On the navy side of things, I worked with many a reservist passing through to get carrier qualified during their two week summer drill. They were good sticks.
wabpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
VarSity
Contributor
 
Join Date: 06-11-07
Location: Leicester
Posts: 465
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabpilot View Post
Most USAF Reserves and USN Reserves in aviation are airline pilots, thus they get more flying time than the active duty folks. Their USAF or USN flying is, therefore, dedicated to training on the tactical parts of their mission. Our reserves now get called up quite frequently. On the navy side of things, I worked with many a reservist passing through to get carrier qualified during their two week summer drill. They were good sticks.
I have no doubt they are. I just has the impression/assumption that the reserves would get the second rate stuff. Say a unit gets its new F-22's, and whatever they were flying before goes to the reserves, that sort of thing.

Clearly I was wrong. Still seems odd to me tho, but I know nothing so meh to me!
VarSity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 10:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
Bluesman
WAB Bartender
Defense Professional
Military Professional
 
Bluesman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-24-04
Location: Vacaville, CA.
Posts: 7,387
Country:
Heh.

I thought that was kinda funny, because I remember the last time I witnessed a person that needed to be corrected on his misapprehension that reservists were the last-ditch, break-glass-in-case-of-emergency throw-aways, like they were aerial militia or something. He was an Army buck sergeant on a USAF C-130 from a 'Reserve' unit, and made the mistake of saying something off-color to the flight deck as he was going out the hatch, like 'Not a bad flight for a part-time crew', and MAN!, did he ever get told some gospel!
__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
Bluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 16:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
wabpilot
Military Professional
 
wabpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-05-03
Location: Commuting between Dresden and Ft. Worth
Posts: 558
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarSity View Post
I have no doubt they are. I just has the impression/assumption that the reserves would get the second rate stuff. Say a unit gets its new F-22's, and whatever they were flying before goes to the reserves, that sort of thing.
That was the way the USAF did business. In the Navy, we tended to have our reserve air wings equipped similarly to our active air wings. During the 1980s, we upgraded the reserves to F-14s from the F-4S. That was while we still had F-4N and F-4S squadrons in the regular navy. The same happened with F-18s replacing the A-7. However, the A-7 hung on for a long time in both the regulars and reserves. (It was a good light attack type.)

In the Naval Reserve Force we haven't done as well. They still have too many FFGs. But, almost every Naval Reserve Center has either a Bridge, CIC, Damage Control or Engine Room simulator. The Reservists arrive for their reserve cruise well drilled on how to operate their particular part of the ship, even if their ship is now very much out of date. Thus, a reserve cruise can concentrate on integrating the reservists into the ship's routine without worrying about teaching them their primary duty.

Our system also has two other types of reserves. First there are the active duty reserves. Those are officers who have a reserve commission rather than a regular one. The majority of our serving officers are actually reservists. A substantial majority of our naval aviators on active duty are reservists. That is how I was initially commissioned. I transferred to the regular navy after my four year commitment was complete because the retirement benefits were better. I served under reservists until I got my third stripe. From there on, it was rare to see a reservist on active duty. But, there are reserve Captains and even Admirals. They just tend to be on reserve duty.

The next group of reserves are officers and NCOs who have completed their active service obligations, but are not retired or discharged. They are assigned to the inactive reserve. Which is more what I think your understanding of the reserve is. Definitely people who could be called up in the event of an emergency, but not training on a regular basis.
wabpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2007, 01:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
Scrapdog
Regular
 
Scrapdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-07
Location: Virginia
Posts: 36
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKDan View Post
Scrapdog,

I have aquestion that maybe you can answer for me. In all of the sources that I have been recently reading it states that Elmendorf will have all of 40 the Raptors that it is going to get by December of 2009(including official AF press releases). That seems like a long time to me, and runs contrary to sources that i have seen in the past stating that the Third Fighter Wing would be fully equipped by Dec. 2008. I had been under the impression that although Elmendorfs first 6 F-22s arrived yesterday, there had been F-22s designated for the 90th FS operating at Langley for several months now(I think since Jan. of this year). The 525th FS is scheduled to get its first Raptors at the end of the year IIRC. With production running at 20 a year as far as I can tell, why is it going to take three years for Elmendorf to get 40 aircraft? Is another squadron going to stand up before Elmendorf gets its full compliment? Or did the two squadrons at Langley not have their full number of F-22s until recently? I had thought that they were fully equipped by last winter.
It takes a lot more to stand up a squadron or a wing than just getting airplanes on the ramp.
Scrapdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raptor Scores in Alaskan Exercise tim52 Military Aviation 28 02-07-2007 23:05 PM
Interesting article about the Raptor gamercube Military Aviation 13 01-02-2007 16:21 PM
Various stories/comments on the Raptor JCSVT Military Aviation 12 09-01-2006 05:04 AM
CSAF: Raptor, Eurofighter complementary Simullacrum Military Aviation 19 05-27-2006 01:13 AM
Analysts call Raptor a failure Gun Grape Military Aviation 133 05-15-2006 15:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 19:19 PM.


Rochen is the business hosting sponsor of World Affairs Board and a provider of reseller web hosting services.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8