What's so special about the Cobra?

gunnut · 07-11-2007, 03:10 AM

What's so special about this maneuver? It looks pretty cool at an air show. Does it do anything to win a fight?

I understand the concept, if someone's on my tail, I pull this move and let him shoot past me. I'll be on his tail. But at the same time I bleed off speed like a liberal going through the budget. I would have to accelerate again to get all that air speed back. By then my opponent is miles away or thousands of feet above me.

Besides, this move only works if someone is 500 meters behind me and I can't shake him. I figure I would be long dead if a scenario like this develops.

Injecteer · 07-11-2007, 05:21 AM

The cobra can also fool the doppler-radar. If you reduce speed to about 0 kmh, then you'll become "invisible" -- stealth in action

Tronic · 07-11-2007, 07:01 AM

Cobra manuver isn't meant for air combat. period.

wabpilot · 07-11-2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

What's so special about this maneuver? It looks pretty cool at an air show. Does it do anything to win a fight?

Not much. There is one time when the maneuver might be useful and that is to attack an F-15 that does not carry the AIM-9X.

Jimmy · 07-11-2007, 08:22 AM

Works fairly well against F-5s, from what I've seen.

Ucar · 07-11-2007, 10:05 AM

The Cobra emphasizes not only aircraft agility and maneuverability, but also engine performance, and their ability to continue running with disturbed airflow.

Another possible use of the manuever might be to dump excess speed in a hurry to cause an enemy overshoot. Once again this is only a maybe...

Tin Man · 07-11-2007, 11:10 AM

I heard that another idea for Cobra use would be "over the shoulder" heat seeker shots? Would that be feasible? It would certainly be a bloody surprise!

Scrapdog · 07-11-2007, 15:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

Cobra manuver isn't meant for air combat. period.

Second what he said - it's a very foolish move tactically speaking. It was created by a bunch of Russian clowns at an airshow trying to sell their junk to the highest bidder.

gunnut · 07-11-2007, 17:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Injecteer

The cobra can also fool the doppler-radar. If you reduce speed to about 0 kmh, then you'll become "invisible" -- stealth in action

I maybe wrong on this, but I thought the aircraft performing the Cobra is still moving forward as before, just much slower and with the tail pointed in that direction. The jet never reaches 0 speed.

glyn · 07-11-2007, 18:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapdog

Second what he said - it's a very foolish move tactically speaking. It was created by a bunch of Russian clowns at an airshow trying to sell their junk to the highest bidder.

That's a very harsh assessment. It was created by a very skilled test pilot to impress the viewers on the ground, some few of whom may have been purchasing customers, but the vast majority of whom were the home crowd relishing watching something that no other fighter could do.

wabpilot · 07-11-2007, 20:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

I maybe wrong on this, but I thought the aircraft performing the Cobra is still moving forward as before, just much slower and with the tail pointed in that direction. The jet never reaches 0 speed.

It doesn't. It gets very slow and AOA is up at almost 35 units, but the aircraft is still moving.

Injecteer · 07-13-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

I maybe wrong on this, but I thought the aircraft performing the Cobra is still moving forward as before, just much slower and with the tail pointed in that direction. The jet never reaches 0 speed.

Sure, the Cobra is a fancy way to reduce speed. And that's exactly what you need to fool the Doppler-radar. You don't have to move at 0 kmh, it's enough if you move say not faster than a helicopter.
The Doppler radar function is based on frequency shift of reflected radio-waves: the faster the target AC is moving, the bigger the shift is, and therefore target's speed/position is calculated more accurately.
On the other hand, if target's speed is small, the frequency shift becomes close to the noise level, making the tracing much more inacurate.
It's a well-known fact, that a hanging helo is not visible to Doppler-radar.

Jimmy · 07-13-2007, 18:48 PM

Better hope there's nobody else targetting you, because not only are you not fooling their radar, you just made life REAL easy for their missiles.

GGTharos · 07-13-2007, 18:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Injecteer

Sure, the Cobra is a fancy way to reduce speed. And that's exactly what you need to fool the Doppler-radar. You don't have to move at 0 kmh, it's enough if you move say not faster than a helicopter.
The Doppler radar function is based on frequency shift of reflected radio-waves: the faster the target AC is moving, the bigger the shift is, and therefore target's speed/position is calculated more accurately.
On the other hand, if target's speed is small, the frequency shift becomes close to the noise level, making the tracing much more inacurate.

There are other means of mainting lock on a target in the notch ... which may or may not be implemented. If for some reason, whether due to datalink, or other methods, you are still on your opponent's scope and there's a missile coming your way, you just really did ... not do yourself a favor by slowing down.

Quote:

It's a well-known fact, that a hanging helo is not visible to Doppler-radar.

Oh ... you mean the same way that an F-15E can pick up a heli sitting on the ground from 50nm away, just because the rotor's spinning? Check the source of your 'fact' there ...

Jimmy · 07-13-2007, 20:03 PM

Wasnt it a Strike Eagle that lobbed a bomb on top of a Hind or something in Desert Storm?

07-11-2007, 03:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 9,143 Country:	What's so special about the Cobra? What's so special about this maneuver? It looks pretty cool at an air show. Does it do anything to win a fight? I understand the concept, if someone's on my tail, I pull this move and let him shoot past me. I'll be on his tail. But at the same time I bleed off speed like a liberal going through the budget. I would have to accelerate again to get all that air speed back. By then my opponent is miles away or thousands of feet above me. Besides, this move only works if someone is 500 meters behind me and I can't shake him. I figure I would be long dead if a scenario like this develops. __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

07-11-2007, 07:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tronic Navajo Code Talker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-27-04 Location: Patiala, India Posts: 5,250 Country:	Cobra manuver isn't meant for air combat. period. __________________ *Nabha Sparasham Deeptam* *-Touch The Sky With Glory*

07-11-2007, 11:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
Tin Man Contributor Join Date: 06-02-07 Location: In the `shires. Posts: 396 Country:	I heard that another idea for Cobra use would be "over the shoulder" heat seeker shots? Would that be feasible? It would certainly be a bloody surprise! __________________ "Liberty is a thing beyond all price.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Zaraqawi shat his pants	Shek	The War in Iraq	7	05-10-2006 02:59 AM
RAND: Air Power Against Terror	Officer of Engineers	The Field Mess	5	03-28-2006 23:27 PM
Special operators say the Taliban is poised to wake, rejuvenated, from a calculated s	troung	Current Affairs	0	02-14-2006 22:39 PM
Canada Forms Special Forces	troung	The Western Alliance	7	01-13-2006 22:10 PM
Task Force 121	troung	The War in Iraq	1	08-04-2005 16:14 PM

07-11-2007, 05:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
Injecteer Patron Join Date: 10-01-04 Posts: 190	The cobra can also fool the doppler-radar. If you reduce speed to about 0 kmh, then you'll become "invisible" -- stealth in action

07-11-2007, 08:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 913 Country:	Works fairly well against F-5s, from what I've seen.

07-11-2007, 10:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ucar *Military Professional* Join Date: 06-19-07 Posts: 292 Country:	The Cobra emphasizes not only aircraft agility and maneuverability, but also engine performance, and their ability to continue running with disturbed airflow. Another possible use of the manuever might be to dump excess speed in a hurry to cause an enemy overshoot. Once again this is only a maybe...

07-13-2007, 18:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 913 Country:	Better hope there's nobody else targetting you, because not only are you not fooling their radar, you just made life REAL easy for their missiles.

07-13-2007, 20:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 913 Country:	Wasnt it a Strike Eagle that lobbed a bomb on top of a Hind or something in Desert Storm?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)