Sukhoi-30s square off with RAF Typhoons

Tronic · 07-08-2007, 00:32 AM

Quote:

Sukhoi-30s square off with RAF Typhoons

Much was at stake of its reputation when for the first-time, the Royal Air Force's (RAF) Eurofighter Typhoon, developed by a consortium of European manufacturers and recently inducted into the RAF, was to engage in any kind of an aerial combat with any non-RAF/NATO fighter.

The Indian Air Force's (IAF) Sukhoi-30 MKI 'air superiority fighter', here for the bilateral air exercise at Waddington for 'Exercise Indradhanush-2007', had an opponent for a befitting duel.

The operational part of the 'Exercise Indradhanush-2007' began with a series of 1 vs 1 air combat sorties. Both the variants landed with their much-touted reputations intact as each side tested their potential with their adversary in the air to their limits. These sorties were premised not entirely on having winners or losers – but more for their evaluator and training values as encapsulated in the objectives. And both sides ended-up sharing an enhanced respect for each other's capabilities – both in terms of training values, and combat potentials of the diverse aerial platforms.

While the RAF fielded some of their most-experienced and highly-qualified pilots, some of them being very senior performance evaluators in active service, the IAF pilots were a mix of 'young to middle-level pilots' from the 'Rhinos' squadron. The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKI's observed superior manouevring in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoon's agility in the air.

While it does not imply to say that the air combat sorties were meant for backslapping each other, it may be understood that in today's aerial combat scenarios of 'beyond visual range' (BVR) capabilities of air platforms, it is highly unlikely that any of the modern-day fighters will ever get into a situation that warrants extreme close air combat, as in the situations simulated in the 'one-versus-one' sorties. With a 'kill' criterion of front-gun ranges during 'one-versus-one' being mostly under 1000 metres and a visual tracking envelope behind the target for only up to a 60-degree cone for most fighter aircraft of the world, the unlikely scenario gets further exemplified.

But the irony also lies in the fact that while there is a number of counter and counter-counter measures to make the modern missiles with claims of inescapable parameters redundant by using 'chaff' and other active/passive measures, a 'gun kill' is invariably a most certain kill. The fighter pilots begin honing their tracking and combat skills under such close combat situations.
The exercise that nearly runs into midway by the weekend constitutes mostly mixed missions where RAF F3 Tornados, Hawks and Typhoons that are packed together with IAF Su-30 MKIs. The sorties include combat situations of 2 vs 1, 2 vs 2 and upward combinations. The raiders are tasked with 'High Value Asset' (HVA) busting on the ground and the 'High Value Airborne Asset' (HVAA) busting in the air, while the defensive elements designated to counter their ambitions.

btw, the Tornado have upward thrust or something like that?; as its tail seems quite burnt.

arham · 07-08-2007, 01:51 AM

.

even pakistan conducts more sophisticated excercises with saudi arabia and usa than ******an indradhanush-2007.

.
britain is just checking out the MKI to know where it actually stands in the pecking order.

dont take this excercise seriously.

enjoy!!!
.

Jay · 07-08-2007, 01:59 AM

Sophisticated exercise with Saudis?? ROFLMAO, good continue doing exercices with them, IAF does need target practice.

P.s Take a hike and dont troll.

Dago · 07-08-2007, 02:22 AM

That would be one hell of a sight, in the skies above, seeing those MKI's going heads up against those Typhoons. Both extremely agile aircraft. Not to mention them being piloted by some skillful pilots. Kudos.

Edit : Few Pictures

glyn · 07-08-2007, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

btw, the Tornado have upward thrust or something like that?; as its tail seems quite burnt.

Just the sooty deposits that accumulate with reverse thrust.

HKDan · 07-08-2007, 04:24 AM

There is defeinitely one of those planes that is far, far better looking than the other. Its not the Typhoon.

hello · 07-08-2007, 05:16 AM

AFAIK, the Typhoon should win this. It supposedly has a much lower RCS, supercruise( with air-to-air loadout ), equal radars, and longer-ranged missiles( Meteor+AMRAAM combo ). The delta-canard should provide good maneuverability, but not as good as the Su 30's TVC.

However, the Tornados could prove a liability the Typhoons have to defend against the more powerful MKIs.

MrFirst · 07-08-2007, 05:45 AM

The Indians got the best aircrafts that even Russia doesn't have. They should hold on!

glyn · 07-08-2007, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

AFAIK, the Typhoon should win this. It supposedly has a much lower RCS, supercruise( with air-to-air loadout ), equal radars, and longer-ranged missiles( Meteor+AMRAAM combo ). The delta-canard should provide good maneuverability, but not as good as the Su 30's TVC.

However, the Tornados could prove a liability the Typhoons have to defend against the more powerful MKIs.

The Tornado was never designed to be a dogfighter. Its forte is long range, long times on station and radar optimised for its role.

SRB · 07-08-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

AFAIK, the Typhoon should win this. It supposedly has a much lower RCS, supercruise( with air-to-air loadout ), equal radars, and longer-ranged missiles( Meteor+AMRAAM combo ). The delta-canard should provide good maneuverability, but not as good as the Su 30's TVC.

However, the Tornados could prove a liability the Typhoons have to defend against the more powerful MKIs.

And when Su-30 kick Typhoon litle ass

you will just say it was dog-fight so it doesnt count

Tronic · 07-08-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

AFAIK, the Typhoon should win this. It supposedly has a much lower RCS, supercruise( with air-to-air loadout ), equal radars, and longer-ranged missiles( Meteor+AMRAAM combo ). The delta-canard should provide good maneuverability, but not as good as the Su 30's TVC.

I believe another reason for this excercise is to familiarize with each others aircraft and tactics as officials from RAF's Air Warfare Centre and IAFs TACDE (Tactics and Combat Development Establishment) are both present at the exercise as observers.

Quote:

However, the Tornados could prove a liability the Typhoons have to defend against the more powerful MKIs.

From what I've read, it is a mixed force; not IAF vs RAF. Also, I believe that even the Sentrys may be taking part in this exercise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Sophisticated exercise with Saudis?? ROFLMAO, good continue doing exercices with them, IAF does need target practice.

Better to ignore immature trolls bro. Keep the thread clean.

**TopHatter** · 07-08-2007, 14:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arham

.
even pakistan conducts more sophisticated excercises with saudi arabia and usa than ******an indradhanush-2007.

Somehow I doubt you'll improve with time.

uss · 07-08-2007, 23:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

AFAIK, the Typhoon should win this. It supposedly has a much lower RCS, supercruise( with air-to-air loadout ), equal radars, and longer-ranged missiles( Meteor+AMRAAM combo ). The delta-canard should provide good maneuverability, but not as good as the Su 30's TVC.

Hold on to your hat pal, you are thinking way out in the future, do the current RAF EF2000T1/f2s carry the Aim120 C5, last i read it was still with the Amraam B. The MKI as of now is equipped with the R77 and r27ER both of which have much better ranges than the amraam b.
As far as supercruise goes I don't know how its going to help against an aircraft with phenomenal fuel stores (and therefore amazing endurance).
As far as equal radars go, I seriously doubt a slotted array of about 700mm is going to equate with a PESA thats a meter wide with tremendous power outputs. Hell the most optimistic detection ranges quoted for an f4 sized target (8sqm?) for the Captor are ~ 180km; the Bars mk1 OTOH is supposed to get a 3sqm @ 200 km+ and the current MKI uses Bars mk3.

As far as the future goes, by the time the Ef2000 carries an AESA (~ 2012), the MKI will carry either a 2000 module AESA or the IRBIS (detection for 3sqm = 350-400 km), ultra long ranged KS172, and probly the new R77 (ver.180) with a range of ~ 200 km.

Overall, I doubt the Typhoon's going to get the better of the MKI, BVR or WVR either today or tomorrow.

USS.

GGTharos · 07-09-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uss

Hold on to your hat pal, you are thinking way out in the future, do the current RAF EF2000T1/f2s carry the Aim120 C5, last i read it was still with the Amraam B. The MKI as of now is equipped with the R77 and r27ER both of which have much better ranges than the amraam b.

No, they don't ... actually they're all pretty close.

Quote:

As far as equal radars go, I seriously doubt a slotted array of about 700mm is going to equate with a PESA thats a meter wide with tremendous power outputs. Hell the most optimistic detection ranges quoted for an f4 sized target (8sqm?) for the Captor are ~ 180km; the Bars mk1 OTOH is supposed to get a 3sqm @ 200 km+ and the current MKI uses Bars mk3.

Yes, well, if you look at the MiG-35's AESA range quotes, you'll find that the claims for the Bars are a little exaggerated.

Quote:

ultra long ranged KS172

Not a real factor...will be used against HVA's, not fighters.

Quote:

and probly the new R77 (ver.180) with a range of ~ 200 km.

And by then, the tiffy will be equipping the much better meteor

Quote:

Overall, I doubt the Typhoon's going to get the better of the MKI, BVR or WVR either today or tomorrow.

USS.

Poor analysis can certainly lead to such a conclusion. The MKI -does- have a more powerful radar. Russian avionics, however, have never been up to par with western avionics, and that means a lot.

Archer · 07-09-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Not a real factor...will be used against HVA's, not fighters.

Incorrect.

Quote:

Yes, well, if you look at the MiG-35's AESA range quotes, you'll find that the claims for the Bars are a little exaggerated.

The MiG-35 AESA has nothing to do with the Bars. Or for that matter, its developers.

Quote:

Poor analysis can certainly lead to such a conclusion. The MKI -does- have a more powerful radar. Russian avionics, however, have never been up to par with western avionics, and that means a lot.

Doesnt mean much actually. The reality is that only the performance matters, how one achieves it- either by using the latest doodads, or other options, has very little to do with the result, as long as the ASRs are met.

07-08-2007, 01:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
arham Banished Join Date: 07-08-07 Posts: 2	silly indians . even pakistan conducts more sophisticated excercises with saudi arabia and usa than ****an indradhanush-2007.** . britain is just checking out the MKI to know where it actually stands in the pecking order. dont take this excercise seriously. enjoy!!! .

07-08-2007, 01:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jay Tamizhanban *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-06-03 Location: Edison, NJ Posts: 6,191 Country:	Sophisticated exercise with Saudis?? ROFLMAO, good continue doing exercices with them, IAF does need target practice. P.s Take a hike and dont troll. __________________ A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

07-08-2007, 02:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dago Patron Join Date: 02-23-06 Posts: 226 Country:	That would be one hell of a sight, in the skies above, seeing those MKI's going heads up against those Typhoons. Both extremely agile aircraft. Not to mention them being piloted by some skillful pilots. Kudos. Edit : Few Pictures Last edited by Dago : 07-08-2007 at 02:41 AM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
£40bn Saudi fighter jet deal brings RAF shortage fears	Endangered	South Asian Defense Topics	3	01-20-2006 07:28 AM

07-08-2007, 04:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
HKDan Contributor Join Date: 05-23-06 Location: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Hangzhou, wherever the wife drags me Posts: 406 Country:	There is defeinitely one of those planes that is far, far better looking than the other. Its not the Typhoon.

07-08-2007, 05:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
hello Contributor Join Date: 05-31-05 Posts: 683	AFAIK, the Typhoon should win this. It supposedly has a much lower RCS, supercruise( with air-to-air loadout ), equal radars, and longer-ranged missiles( Meteor+AMRAAM combo ). The delta-canard should provide good maneuverability, but not as good as the Su 30's TVC. However, the Tornados could prove a liability the Typhoons have to defend against the more powerful MKIs.

07-08-2007, 05:45 AM	#8 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 576	The Indians got the best aircrafts that even Russia doesn't have. They should hold on!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)