Viggen

braindead · 07-03-2007, 07:16 AM

Viggen - one of the most remarkable fighters ever (IMO) . But is it more comparable to Mig-21/F-4 or F-16/15/Mig-29 generation?
I´m still a little sad that Belg./Holl./Denm./Norway didn´t take Viggen .

great video .
YouTube - The undecided...

glyn · 07-03-2007, 09:17 AM

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead

Viggen - one of the most remarkable fighters ever (IMO) . But is it more comparable to Mig-21/F-4 or F-16/15/Mig-29 generation?

Between them chronologically, but a very advanced machine for its day. Instead of having the aircraft as a multi-purpose machine, the variants were optimised for their specific roles.
I´m still a little sad that Belg./Holl./Denm./Norway didn´t take Viggen .

The US government wouldn't permit its export as the engine was basically an American design built by the Swedes. The Viggen can be seen in many museums today.

great video .
YouTube - The undecided...

braindead · 07-03-2007, 09:33 AM

Glyn , in this video Gripen performs a amazing feat , how much is it similar to Harriers take-off and landing . I seem to recall that Harriers preferred landing with a little roll , not vertical landing . And Viggens take-off distance seems very short , probably 2-3 times longer than Harrier , but still impressive .
Could Viggen be described as the pretty much the best from both worlds ? Pretty short take-off/landing characteristics and less limitations than Harrier /Yak-38 ? Your help is much appreciated as a always !

Ucar · 07-03-2007, 09:45 AM

F-16.net :: View topic - F-16 versus Saab 37 Viggen

You may check the 5th and 6th posts for reviews by actual pilots of Viggen vs. Viper comparison.

Judging by their comments, Viggen seems like it will make mincemeat of Mig-21, go head to head against the F-4, and against earlier block F16s and early version of Mig-29s have an advantage in BVR engagements. I doubt it could hurt the F-15 both in BVR and close range engagements.

glyn · 07-03-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead

Glyn , in this video Gripen performs a amazing feat , how much is it similar to Harriers take-off and landing . I seem to recall that Harriers preferred landing with a little roll , not vertical landing

The Viggen is classed as STOL but is not in the Harrier class which is VTOL. It has a very sturdy undercarriage and uses reverse thrust on a tactical landing (which mostly means roads).

. And Viggens take-off distance seems very short , probably 2-3 times longer than Harrier , but still impressive .

The Harrier needs a take off run when carrying any significant payload but this is still less that the Viggens take off run, even in the worst case. The Harrier can also land conventionally, and sometimes has to do so, but with its zero track u/c this can give a wild ride on occasion.

Could Viggen be described as the pretty much the best from both worlds ? Pretty short take-off/landing characteristics and less limitations than Harrier /Yak-38 ? Your help is much appreciated as a always !

The Viggen could hold its own with the other world class machines of its day, and Sweden can be pleased with its achievement.
In many parts of the world it would still be a viable machine today.

gunnut · 07-03-2007, 16:09 PM

Them Swedes are a bunch of amazing engineers. The Viggen and the Gripen both have world class performance at comparible prices to other western fighters of the day. A big reason they don't sell well besides the engine being license built American version is probably due to the fact that everyone wants to fly an American fighter if possible. It's the prestige thing. Look, my airforce uses the same hardware that USAF uses. Go me.

glyn · 07-03-2007, 16:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

Them Swedes are a bunch of amazing engineers. The Viggen and the Gripen both have world class performance at comparible prices to other western fighters of the day. A big reason they don't sell well besides the engine being license built American version is probably due to the fact that everyone wants to fly an American fighter if possible. It's the prestige thing. Look, my airforce uses the same hardware that USAF uses. Go me.

Don't forget that apart from your rather fanciful theory, potential purchasers are put off by the Swedish governments strictly enforced ethical standards. If they think you are, or might be, a belligerent they will not let SAAB sell their wares to you. Also you will not get spares if you did buy, but then got into a fight (and that's the time you most need them). Of course the USA, USSR and virtually every other government has been known to politically control the spares when it suits them.

Tronic · 07-03-2007, 17:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glyn

Don't forget that apart from your rather fanciful theory, potential purchasers are put off by the Swedish governments strictly enforced ethical standards. If they think you are, or might be, a belligerent they will not let SAAB sell their wares to you. Also you will not get spares if you did buy, but then got into a fight (and that's the time you most need them). Of course the USA, USSR and virtually every other government has been known to politically control the spares when it suits them.

You summed it up well glyn. Come wartime, the one thing that matters are your weapons, and the seller placing sanctions on spares is the worst nightmare for the customer. That was one thing which kept India far away from American weapons, and especially after the 1998 sanctions, which saw India's entire Harrier fleet grounded due to lack of spares. Even though the political situation is different now; those past American sanction fears are probably the only major advantage MiG holds over the Super Hornet for the MRCA contract.

Mtwoodson · 07-20-2007, 22:13 PM

The Viggen is/was a remarkable aircraft. The short takeoff and landing capability was partially a function of the of Sweden's dispersal plan, wasn't it? I always liked the idea of finding fighters hidden in bunkers along the highway system. I always wanted to see a Phantom or F-111 hidden behind a pine tree in northern Maine on I-95.

wabpilot · 07-21-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mtwoodson

I always wanted to see a Phantom or F-111 hidden behind a pine tree in northern Maine on I-95.

How do you plan to fuel and are your F-111? How do you plan on repairing it? How about housing the troops who fly and keep it flying?

Mtwoodson · 07-21-2007, 14:36 PM

wabpilot,
I never said that the things I wanted were realistic or practical.

MarquezRazor · 07-21-2007, 17:48 PM

Besides the Viggen and the Gripen..I think the Draken looks cool too.

wabpilot · 07-22-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mtwoodson

wabpilot,
I never said that the things I wanted were realistic or practical.

Everything about your post implies both an approval of the tactic and that it was realistic and practical.

entropy · 07-22-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabpilot

How do you plan to fuel and are your F-111? How do you plan on repairing it? How about housing the troops who fly and keep it flying?

Do preserved aircraft break down? If it is kept mothballed with fuel nearby in a small underground bunker, with troops flown in by helicopter it seems possible.
This gives some aircraft the capability to take off after cruise missiles have struck the airfields.

However, this seems to simple to be true. Where is my mistake?

wabpilot · 07-22-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Do preserved aircraft break down?

Your question demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of things mechanical and electrical. The simple answer is yes. The sun, wind, heat and cold cause deterioration even without use. If you mean preserved in the military sense, then that deterioration will be slow, but the process of bringing a preserved aircraft back to use is long and requires specialized facilities. More important the process requires a great many people with specialized skills.

Quote:

If it is kept mothballed with fuel nearby in a small underground bunker, with troops flown in by helicopter it seems possible.

Yet it is not possible. Do you have any idea how many troops it requires just to turn an F-111 of F-4? Do you have any idea what skills they might need? Do you have any idea what consumables might be required or how to store and move those consumables safely?

Quote:

This gives some aircraft the capability to take off after cruise missiles have struck the airfields.

So does a good air defenese warning system, and you can then use the aircraft for their intended purpose.

Quote:

However, this seems to simple to be true. Where is my mistake?

See above.

07-03-2007, 07:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,230 Country:	Viggen Viggen - one of the most remarkable fighters ever (IMO) . But is it more comparable to Mig-21/F-4 or F-16/15/Mig-29 generation? I´m still a little sad that Belg./Holl./Denm./Norway didn´t take Viggen . great video . YouTube - The undecided... __________________ .... Last edited by braindead : 07-03-2007 at 07:25 AM.

07-03-2007, 09:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,230 Country:	Glyn , in this video Gripen performs a amazing feat , how much is it similar to Harriers take-off and landing . I seem to recall that Harriers preferred landing with a little roll , not vertical landing . And Viggens take-off distance seems very short , probably 2-3 times longer than Harrier , but still impressive . Could Viggen be described as the pretty much the best from both worlds ? Pretty short take-off/landing characteristics and less limitations than Harrier /Yak-38 ? Your help is much appreciated as a always ! Last edited by braindead : 07-03-2007 at 09:41 AM.

07-03-2007, 16:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 9,143 Country:	Them Swedes are a bunch of amazing engineers. The Viggen and the Gripen both have world class performance at comparible prices to other western fighters of the day. A big reason they don't sell well besides the engine being license built American version is probably due to the fact that everyone wants to fly an American fighter if possible. It's the prestige thing. Look, my airforce uses the same hardware that USAF uses. Go me. __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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07-03-2007, 09:45 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ucar *Military Professional* Join Date: 06-19-07 Posts: 292 Country:	F-16.net :: View topic - F-16 versus Saab 37 Viggen You may check the 5th and 6th posts for reviews by actual pilots of Viggen vs. Viper comparison. Judging by their comments, Viggen seems like it will make mincemeat of Mig-21, go head to head against the F-4, and against earlier block F16s and early version of Mig-29s have an advantage in BVR engagements. I doubt it could hurt the F-15 both in BVR and close range engagements.

07-20-2007, 22:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mtwoodson New Member Join Date: 05-18-07 Location: North of Phoenix Posts: 9 Country:	The Viggen is/was a remarkable aircraft. The short takeoff and landing capability was partially a function of the of Sweden's dispersal plan, wasn't it? I always liked the idea of finding fighters hidden in bunkers along the highway system. I always wanted to see a Phantom or F-111 hidden behind a pine tree in northern Maine on I-95.

07-21-2007, 14:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mtwoodson New Member Join Date: 05-18-07 Location: North of Phoenix Posts: 9 Country:	wabpilot, I never said that the things I wanted were realistic or practical.

07-21-2007, 17:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
MarquezRazor *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-03-06 Posts: 1,269	Besides the Viggen and the Gripen..I think the Draken looks cool too.

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