Northalius

Ares: A Defense Technology Blog: EADS Knows LO

Interesting, I just read that. Ah, that just backs my own opinion up, then.

gunnut

But didn't the F-14 have similarly shaped intake? At an angle too?

The F-18 also had the same angle on the rudders.

I'm not saying you're wrong or the F-18 is not stealthy. I'm just saying there are more things going into making the plane stealthy. A large part is the exterior shape. SR-71 was very stealthy just because of its shape alone.

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Northalius

The F-14's air intakes were somewhat slanted, but they weren't really shaped like the F-18 Super Hornet and F-22 air intakes. You can see a huge difference when looking at pictures of all the jets side by side.

I'm not saying only the things I mentioned make it stealthy, I know there's a lot more to it; but, just pointing out a couple things the F-18 has to be plainly seen, as compared to the jets that do not have these obvious stealth shaping in them.

There's also RAM involved, but we just don't know how much was put on each jet in comparison.

I still stand on the F-18 being the most stealthy out of the bunch.

wabpilot

The F-14 was designed long before we knew much about reducing radar observability. As such, it is about as unstealthy a fighter as there ever was. Conversely, the F-18E/F was designed with a great deal of LO knowledge.

hello

I'm thoroughly amazed at how the LCA is winning this poll. IMO, the Rafale should be the stealthiest: just look at it's shape. However, RCS is a stat that's highly classified, so I'd say that all of this is just pure guessing based on shape. The front-runners are the Eurocanards and Superbug, but definitely not Tejas. Although Tejas is small, size is only one of many factors contributing to RCS. A towed decoy is smaller than an LCA, but still has much higher RCS. The B-2 is huge, yet it's stealthiness is only topped by that of the F-22. If size was all, than the MiG-21 would be a stealth fighter.

Tin Man

You can`t tell which aircraft has a low RCS by shape alone, so you can`t say the Rafale "looks" the most stealthy with all respect hello, as you went on to actually say.
It is not just external shape that determines RCS levels, internal configurations are important. The internal structure of an aircraft contributes to RCS as well AFAIK. The SR71 employed internal RCS reduction measures way back in the `50s`, can`t remember the details now but this particular construction method had a "given" name/title. I didn`t vote on the poll because of reasons other posters have stated.

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Northalius

If anything, the shape of the F-18 SH should be stealthiest. I gave two specific reasons why, in my first post.

uss

My bet's on the Rafale as well - it seems to have the fewest right angles, high composite structure, excellent shape on the intakes, also stealth (discrete is what they called it) was one of their design goals. The Superhornet and the Tejas tie in for # 2, followed by the EF2000 and the MiG 35 for the 3rd spot. Why? Because like Northalius points out, those Boeing folks know stealth and are in the best position to bring it about; as far as the Tejas is concerned, it does have th advantage of being small, high composite structure, decently shaped inlets and most importantly one of its normally tight lipped program managers/directors? ahem, stealthily mentioned that it has a very low RCS. The EF2000 comes in 3rd because despite all its fantastic claims to the # 2 spot after the Raptor, they have a mighty legacy looking jet. And their marketing director himself pointed out as recently as April '06 that its RCS is around 1/10th of the F15 (puts it squarely in the 1-2 msq range). I'll put the MiG 35 equal to the Typhoon in terms of stealth simply because the Russians have done some credible work on RAM and claim an RCS reduction of upto 10X of the original A model - i'd put it around 1sqm
as well.
Of course with all of these birds carrying massive EFTs and payloads, they will land up pretty much in the same category IMHO.
Regards,
USS.

Tronic

Very true glyn. Nationality does play a big part in all these polls. It is the same for all the people, not only indirect here. I mean people are also picking the Superbug which not only is larger in size then the LCA but even comprises of lower percentage of composite materials then the LCA. [If i'm not wrong, the Superbug comprises of around ~20% of its body made from LO composites whereelse the LCA comprises of around ~40% of its body made from LO composite materials.] So, yes, this poll really doesn't have much to do with facts, just your personal opinion. And I don't know much about the rest of the aircraft here, so I'll try to refrain from voting.

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Northalius

Tronic, composites alone do not make a jet extremely stealthy; nor does it's size (unless it's the size of a bird...). The shaping is most important! And I've pointed out two things plainly seen on the F-18 Super Hornet that make it stealthy.

Sorry man, but those things you pointed out only help a little compared to the shaping.

It may seem like my nationalism blinds me, but I have plain facts seen with the eye to back up my argument.

I'd admit when I thought a jet was not as stealthy, even if it's American. I'm not as dishonest because of some blind nationalism, as you might think.

If the F-16 were in this competition alone, I'd NOT vote for it. I know the Rafale, Eurofighter, etc. are more stealthy than an F-16.

Northalius

I see what you mean, at least where it's shaped under its canards; but look at that huge vertical stabilizer at 90 degree right angle.

The F-18 Super Hornet has slanted veritcal stabilizers.

And again, take a look at the F-18 SH's air intakes; shaped the same as the F-22, for better frontal profile stealth.

We know Boeing has knowledge (from the F-22 project, Bird of Prey project, X-45 and other stealth UCAV designs) of other stealth techniques not plainly seen; so, those are in there as well.


I still believe the F-18 SH is stealthiest.

Tronic

Well actually bro, the post wasn't directed at you; but as for the shape, I really wasn't aware that the F-18s shape incorporated stealth features.

GGTharos

The least detectable non-stealth aircraft would be the 'one that got you' wouldn't it?

Northalius

F-18 SH:



F-22 Raptor:


See the shape of the air intakes compared? Very similar, right?

Now take a look at the vertical stabilizers compared:

F-18 SH:


F-22 Raptor: