Rafale vs F-18 which plane you would like to take? - Page 4

wabpilot · 08-15-2007, 16:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead

Are the F-18C/D still in production ?

No. Although, almost all the F-18As went through a center barrel replacement program that made them very similar to the C. So there are plenty of good F-18s available.

Quote:

Wabpilot , could you tell me why have some nations chosen F-18 over F-16 (Canada, Australia , Spain, Swiss , Finland) ?

I think it's largely a nation by nation choice based on equal parts economics and military needs. To be sure, Canada, Australia and Finland were very concerned about the single engine nature of the F-16. At least for Australia and Canada, they needed the multi-role capability of the F-18. But, McD was also offering some major incentives. Australia got to build their own airplanes. General-Dynamics offered to let the Euros build their F-16s so, they got a lot of early sales. Then, there is the political issue in the US. It's easier for us to let some nations have F-16s, especially early versions where we will not let go of F-18As.

starwarsgeek12 · 08-16-2007, 11:48 AM

ohh, yeah, sorry, my mistake

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabpilot

Alpha Jet, Ouragan, Mystere B.2, Mystere IV, Mirage F.1, Paris Jet, Falcon/Mystre 10, 20, 50, 2000, Mercury, Airbus A300 and up.

Right now, the F-18A, C, D, E & F are superior attack types. They are just much more mature, being cleared for many more weapons. However, when the Rafale Block 10 versions go into service, the gap will narrow significantly. The F-18, all versions, is unstable, making it very maneuverable. So too is the Rafale Block 05. The F-18E/F with AESA has a better radar than the Rafale. If the AMSAR active array program yields a radar in service, again, the gap will definitely narrow. Right now, I put the F-18F ahead of the Rafale Block 05. By the time the Block 15 enters service if it has AMSAR radar, it will be very close to the F-18F. I like the Rafale M and N's small footprint it is ten feet shorter than the F-18F. Further the Rafale's wingspan is the same as the F-18F/F's folded. Maintenance wise, the Rafale represents a major improvement over the Super Etendard and Mirage III. A Rafale can be turned and ready for another sortie in twenty minutes. That is the same as the F-18E/F. It is hard to underestimate the value of that kind of maintenance.

kompikos · 08-19-2007, 12:26 PM

I would certainly take the Rafale, not because the F-18 is not an excellent aircraft, but because it is meant to opperate in deferent condisions than the Rafale.

I personally have a preference for delta-winged aircraft with canards (Rafale and Eurofighter) because they tend to be more stable in negative-G maneuvering that makes them great interceptors. However they are slower in terms of manuevering duration compared to the F-16, F-18 etc.

Also the Rafale is single engined while the Hornet is twin-engined. That makes the last heavier. So what the F-18 gains in aerodynamic maneuvering speed, loses in weight and fuselage length. Also it is mostly designed to operate from carriers while the Rafale can operate from both, easily, because of it's design.

There are many more factors to consider, but right now I would take the Rafale.

BenRoethig · 08-19-2007, 14:04 PM

Rafale is twin engined. The Mirage 2000 it replaces (and Greece uses) is single engined

kompikos · 08-20-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

Rafale is twin engined. The Mirage 2000 it replaces (and Greece uses) is single engined

You are right, sorry about that!

Until today I thought it was single engined and even though I've seen pictures and read a lot about this aircrafts capabilities, I was always stupidly convinced it was single engined! My bad!

gunnut · 08-20-2007, 17:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kompikos

You are right, sorry about that!

Until today I thought it was single engined and even though I've seen pictures and read a lot about this aircrafts capabilities, I was always stupidly convinced it was single engined! My bad!

That's ok. I thought MiG-19 was a single engine aircraft for the longest time.

nutter · 09-10-2007, 16:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starwarsgeek12

yeah, the french do seem to be obsessed with the whole delta wing thing, have they ever developed a jet without a delta? because i have yet 2 see one. anyways, i think that the F-18 is goo dat the A2G role, via it's bigger payload and many hardpoints, but the rafael would excel at the A2A role, by way of it's delta-wing profile, lighter weight overall, and smaller airframe...

There's a few mirages without the delta (F1 i think).

The delta wing is a fairly efficient platform though. With canards, it can be quite manouverable. The delta itself gives a (potentially) fairly large fuel capacity (fuel stored in wings after all), low wing loading, and lots of space for stores.

Yes, it has issues as well, but there are a lot of plusses for it.

Shuttlecat · 09-15-2007, 22:40 PM

Rafale for me.

Visigoth · 10-11-2007, 22:03 PM

During the Afghan campaign, French pilots flying Rafale N were mixing it up with US Navy’s F14, F18 (From the USS Theodore Roosevelt and USS John C Stennis) and Harriers From the Italian carrier Garibaldi.

An Air Force exchange test pilot and graduate of the US Air Force Test Pilot School, Commandant Santiago explains “the Rafale quickly gained the upper hand over the F14, F18 Hornets and AV-8B+ harriers”. “The tomcat is an outdated fighter and not a match for a Rafale”. “fighting against a Hornet is a bit harder, but thanks to low wing loading and extreme agility, the Rafale is markedly superior, and has the leading edge”.

“Also, the hornet is less protected against a departure from controlled flight at very low speed, and a FA18 pilot have to be more careful than us. As a result, we can devote all our attention to tactics whereas they have to constantly think about their flying parameters”. (AFM July 2002).

Indirect Fire · 10-11-2007, 22:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

That's ok. I thought MiG-19 was a single engine aircraft for the longest time.

Wait, it's a single engined craft!!!

Personally, from the testimonies of the pilots, I have to vote Rafelle.

Rifleman · 10-12-2007, 00:35 AM

Airplanes have been going down hill since they retired the A-1 Skyraider.

Ophir · 10-12-2007, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indirect Fire

Wait, it's a single engined craft!!!

...

No, the MiG-19 has two jet engines (RD-9B) unlike the MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-21 and MiG-23.

Versus · 10-13-2007, 17:28 PM

f/a-18 is a good work horse, Rafale on the other hand is sexy, something that Hue Hefner would fly in...Oooh Bunnyyyzzz....

Gun Grape · 10-13-2007, 18:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visigoth

During the Afghan campaign, French pilots flying Rafale N were mixing it up with US Navy’s F14, F18 (From the USS Theodore Roosevelt and USS John C Stennis) and Harriers From the Italian carrier Garibaldi.

You mean BOTH of the Rafale Ns that were aboard CDG when she deployed? Or the 5 total she finally had by the end of OEF?

Seems that with TR/Stennis flying 24hr ops there wouldn't be much time for fun and games.

Of course I'm not doubting the word of a French Air Force pilot

Stitch · Yesterday, 15:58 PM

Hey, mods, I f*****d up and voted for the wrong plane (clicked too fast!); could you change one of the votes from Rafale to Hornet? Thanks!

View Poll Results: Rafale vs Hornet
Rafale (all variants)	36	46.15%
F-18 Hornet (all variants)	42	53.85%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

08-19-2007, 12:26 PM	#48 (permalink)
kompikos Regular Join Date: 08-17-07 Posts: 28 Country:	Rafale I would certainly take the Rafale, not because the F-18 is not an excellent aircraft, but because it is meant to opperate in deferent condisions than the Rafale. I personally have a preference for delta-winged aircraft with canards (Rafale and Eurofighter) because they tend to be more stable in negative-G maneuvering that makes them great interceptors. However they are slower in terms of manuevering duration compared to the F-16, F-18 etc. Also the Rafale is single engined while the Hornet is twin-engined. That makes the last heavier. So what the F-18 gains in aerodynamic maneuvering speed, loses in weight and fuselage length. Also it is mostly designed to operate from carriers while the Rafale can operate from both, easily, because of it's design. There are many more factors to consider, but right now I would take the Rafale.

08-19-2007, 14:04 PM	#49 (permalink)
BenRoethig *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-03-04 Location: Dubuque, IA Posts: 1,047 Country:	Rafale is twin engined. The Mirage 2000 it replaces (and Greece uses) is single engined __________________ F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

10-11-2007, 22:03 PM	#54 (permalink)
Visigoth Regular Join Date: 11-11-04 Posts: 80	During the Afghan campaign, French pilots flying Rafale N were mixing it up with US Navy’s F14, F18 (From the USS Theodore Roosevelt and USS John C Stennis) and Harriers From the Italian carrier Garibaldi. An Air Force exchange test pilot and graduate of the US Air Force Test Pilot School, Commandant Santiago explains “the Rafale quickly gained the upper hand over the F14, F18 Hornets and AV-8B+ harriers”. “The tomcat is an outdated fighter and not a match for a Rafale”. “fighting against a Hornet is a bit harder, but thanks to low wing loading and extreme agility, the Rafale is markedly superior, and has the leading edge”. “Also, the hornet is less protected against a departure from controlled flight at very low speed, and a FA18 pilot have to be more careful than us. As a result, we can devote all our attention to tactics whereas they have to constantly think about their flying parameters”. (AFM July 2002). Last edited by Visigoth : 10-11-2007 at 22:05 PM. Reason: spelling

10-12-2007, 00:35 AM	#56 (permalink)
Rifleman *Military Professional* Join Date: 06-29-06 Location: The edge of the gene pool with a jug of Clorox Posts: 207	Airplanes have been going down hill since they retired the A-1 Skyraider. __________________ "Aim small, miss small." - Benjamin Martin in The Patriot

09-15-2007, 22:40 PM	#53 (permalink)
Shuttlecat Regular Join Date: 07-16-07 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 80 Country:	Rafale for me.

10-13-2007, 17:28 PM	#58 (permalink)
Versus Patron Join Date: 07-03-06 Posts: 229 Country:	f/a-18 is a good work horse, Rafale on the other hand is sexy, something that Hue Hefner would fly in...Oooh Bunnyyyzzz.... __________________ Human stupidity is immortal.

Yesterday, 15:58 PM	#60 (permalink)
Stitch Regular Join Date: 11-14-06 Location: Patterson, CA Posts: 95 Country:	Hey, mods, I f*****d up and voted for the wrong plane (clicked too fast!); could you change one of the votes from Rafale to Hornet? Thanks!

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