Expat Canuck

There has been no need to make it happen quickly like it did in WW2. Keep in mind a lot of pilots had 16-20 hours before they saw combat.

People work and firgure stuff out pretty damn quick if we have to. We've also not ever been on a total war footing like we where then. If there was a need I think it would happen faster than everyone would expect. Life or death kinda does that.

HistoricalDavid

Sorry, especially when you combine it with the ever-increasing pace of modern warfare and international relations (requiring an even faster response), you can't just handwave away the massive training, logistics and integration issues you'd have with introducing a completely new system into a force. At any rate it would probably more combat-effective to have a few scores of extra Eurofighters in your force with existing infrastructure and training rather than partially trained, partially equipped teams operating a few dozen extra Raptors.

Unless, of course, something really crazy happens, like all the USAF pilots and groundcrew associated with the F-22 suddenly don RAF uniforms, speak in British accents, drink tea and migrate with all their stuff to Britain, or they do the same for CDF or RAAF. Crazy but considering Soviet shenanigans in Korea and Vietnam, not impossible.

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Stan

The Australian Debate: Abandon F-35, Buy F-22s? (updated) (defense procurement, military acquisition, defence purchasing)

interesting read again. Im wondering how many ways are there to say - Its not for sale!!!!!!!!!

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gf0012-aust

Its always useful to know the players when some of these articles are quoted.

eg, everyone in ADF and both sides of AustGov know that the F-22 is unavailable.

In 2002 I attended a Procurement Conf where Armitage stood up and advised Aust that if we had a need then the US would look favourably upon it. That public announcement has made every fruit with an airfix kit and a hard on for new toys salivate ever since. The issue was very quietly but quickly buried and soon after Armitage had a job change.

WRT to the ex RAAF AVM, he didn't retire, he was pushed, and he and APA ever since have tried to discredit RAAF and ADF by promoting the unpromotable.

Its colour and movement. Whats happened is that in the lead up to the election people like the AVM were trying to unsettle the govt by giving the opposition party free hits. They would have expected that the then opposition (and now new Govt) would still carry the cudgel and support their view of the fixed wing combat future. That however is not going to happen.

Everyone in ADF, RAAF and the Govt knows that the F-22's aren't on the table. More to the point, they're not wanted. They don't suit our force balance. Its an absolute waste of time getting kit that doesn't fit your combat vision. The F-22 does not fit the combat vision - no matter how good it is for the US.

btw, I don't believe that the US should allow the F-22 to be exported.

Stan

^ great post - thanks for sharing that information.

gf0012-aust

No worries.

I should caveat the prev.

1) nothings final. the threat matrix might shift and the US decides to fight concentrically rather than centrifugally and elects to change the delivery footprint by association
2) price would need to change dramatically
3) If Oz secured F-22's, then the US would be hit with 2 of her other allies demanding access. It would be a political minefield. From a US State Dept perspective, it's easier for none of us to get it rather than any of us.

I can't see any of the above happening, and it would also require the Chinese to change the tempo from death by a thousand cuts to a huge tactical brainfart. (ie, going overt on Taiwan, Paracels, Spratlys etc......)

my 2c anyway.

Expat Canuck

You certainly can cut corners on training it's been done before and will be done again. I'm not talking about getting a few squadrons in the air fast, I'm talking about all of being on a total war footing like we where in WW2. Idealy we would take the time to do everything safely and properly but in my example of need the time isn't available for us to piss away.

Sure it will not be easy but we will do it if we have to because if not we lose.

HistoricalDavid

Well the Polish should have used the same logic. We'll build an amazing army and beat the Germans because if we don't, we lose.

antileader

I think - NO.
It should be the same as for B-52, B-2, SR-71, U-2 and such airplanes.
I can say YES
for F-35 (Canada, UK, Germany, Spain, maybe France)

gf0012-aust

You do understand that the U2 sported other roundels?...

You do understand that the JSF development/manuf program is completely and politically different to F-22?

Stan

What is interesting is the foreign pilots who fly these planes while on exchange programmes.

RAF pilots currently fly B-2's and F-22's.

I know that flying them is very different to operating them in a foriegn airforces.

Jimmy

It really surprises me that they let any foreign pilots fly it. Damn near everything related to its capabilities is classified higher than secret.

glyn

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Expat Canuck

We're not talking about the army though.

Unlike the Polish the British did pull it off in the Battle of Britain.

Tarek Morgen

but not without the help of the said polish flying for the RAF.

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