Israel in talks with USA over F-22 orders - Page 5

BenRoethig · 05-02-2007, 13:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxor

You'll notice I pointed out in my post that it appears to use the old designation..... I just can't figure out why since I know it wasn't in service when the switch took place. (though it may have been in early development however places that entered service earlier used the new designators f-4)

Black Program. If it had been tri-service, someone would have noticed a missing number. In addition, all redesignated aircraft were of Navy origin and were not in order. The F4H became the F4, the F11F became the F-11, and the F8U became the F-8. The first real true Tri-service aircraft was the F-14. YF-12 as a version of the SR-71 and 13 is always skipped.

Jimmy · 05-02-2007, 18:40 PM

I would gladly fly the F-13 "Broken Mirror."

Ya2 · 05-06-2007, 20:25 PM

all these guys who say the f-22 is overkill and shouldn't be sold to israel;
israel already has the amraam, python5 which is better than the aim-9x, so it's overkill anyway already..

Stan187 · 05-06-2007, 20:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ya2

all these guys who say the f-22 is overkill and shouldn't be sold to israel;
israel already has the amraam, python5 which is better than the aim-9x, so it's overkill anyway already..

....

?

hello · 05-07-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy

The F-117 was one of the shining examples of a black program. I've always heard that the "F" designator was for one (or both) of two purposes: funding, and deception in case any words did leak out.

I dont see how the F-117 could've possibly been intended to be a fighter...its too slow, its not maneuverable enough in the "envelope" you'd want to be maneuverable in if you were flying a fighter, and there's no room for a proper air-to-air radar except behind the pilot...NOT the place you want to shoot trons from.

F-117 is not the first example of deceptive naming in a black program. U-2 has 'U' for utility, as in UH-1 Huey or UH-60 Black Hawk!

SR-71 is not so, it uses SR for Strategic Reconnaissance. The numbering was in the old system with 71 following the XB-70 Valkyrie Mach-3 bomber.

Jimmy · 05-07-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

F-117 is not the first example of deceptive...

I never said it was?

Ya2 · 05-07-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

....

?

therefore the f-22 wont change much in air-air but might save some pilots' lifes and give the jets more chances of reaching their targets..

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-17-2007, 13:28 PM

Ok, let's ask this question. Will Israel want this plane if she has to pay full price for it ... with no subsidies from the US whatsoever.

bdn12 · 07-17-2007, 14:24 PM

No. But it doesn't matter. No one but the US is getting this plane anyways.

Stan187 · 07-17-2007, 16:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Ok, let's ask this question. Will Israel want this plane if she has to pay full price for it ... with no subsidies from the US whatsoever.

No. And considering the level of threats in the region, I fail to see how the Raptor's one-engined cousin Jay Ess Eff will not be enough.

FullTank · 07-17-2007, 21:55 PM

More than any threats or defensive reason would this plane help significantly in any israeli operation to take out Iranian nukes and is it more likely for this reason that israel needs F-22?

Systems like S-300 would be less effective against F-22 than other planes in a multi-plane attack?

i.e. defensive systems of iran(including planes and anti aircraft systems) could be attacked more easier using F-22 thus reducing Irans defensive capability and increase the success % of other planes of israel to complete the task?

Wouldnt this be very good reason to have an F-22 now?

bdn12 · 07-17-2007, 22:31 PM

Sorry. Israel doesn't need it. I think, like Japan, they want it for national pride. This is a plane like the SR-71 and B-2 that won't be exported. If they want to take out Iranian nuke sites, they should just ask the U.S. to do it. If there's a war with Iran, the U.S. will end up being involved anyways because we wouldn't let Israel or even Saudi Arabia (who has bad relations with Iran) fight Iran alone.

FullTank · 07-17-2007, 22:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdn12

we wouldn't let Israel fight Iran alone.

Not even if Israel is ready to do the actual attacking part of the operation against the Irannian nuclear sites by themselves? US could help them in the intel gathering, co-ordinating etc

And if not why would that be? Wouldnt it reduce the blame against the US?Israel probably has no issues wth Islamic countries calling them anti-muslim etc?

US probably needs to avoid taking on attacks in Sunni & Shia countries at the same time?

Jimmy · 07-18-2007, 10:31 AM

Honestly I dont think that's enough of a reason for the US to give it to Israel. Giving/selling high-profile weapons that they could ONLY use as an offensive weapon is a good way to inflame the region even more.

-{SpoonmaN}- · 07-19-2007, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

If Israel gets the F 22, then it would be less dependent on the nuclear aspect of its defence since it will give it more confidence to face the Arabs in all combat situations. The nuclear aspect is worrisome to all including Israel's well wishers because if cornered Israel will use it. It must be remembered that Israel does not flinch or care about what others may feel.

It will also make the Arabs including the Hezbollah have second thoughts before embarking on any military or quasi military adventure.

Just my thoughts.

Why would Hezbo give a crap if Israel have F-22s? Isreal has air superiority over them with Hueys.
Anyway this won't happen, it'll cost way too much for the Israelis to handle. Super Eagles and Falcons will give the Israelis enough punch.

07-17-2007, 13:28 PM	#68 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 15,918 Country:	Ok, let's ask this question. Will Israel want this plane if she has to pay full price for it ... with no subsidies from the US whatsoever. __________________ Chimo

07-17-2007, 21:55 PM	#71 (permalink)
FullTank Patron Join Date: 07-11-07 Location: West Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 259	More than any threats or defensive reason would this plane help significantly in any israeli operation to take out Iranian nukes and is it more likely for this reason that israel needs F-22? Systems like S-300 would be less effective against F-22 than other planes in a multi-plane attack? i.e. defensive systems of iran(including planes and anti aircraft systems) could be attacked more easier using F-22 thus reducing Irans defensive capability and increase the success % of other planes of israel to complete the task? Wouldnt this be very good reason to have an F-22 now? Last edited by FullTank : 07-17-2007 at 22:24 PM.

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05-02-2007, 18:40 PM	#62 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 931 Country:	I would gladly fly the F-13 "Broken Mirror."

05-06-2007, 20:25 PM	#63 (permalink)
Ya2 New Member Join Date: 05-06-07 Posts: 7	all these guys who say the f-22 is overkill and shouldn't be sold to israel; israel already has the amraam, python5 which is better than the aim-9x, so it's overkill anyway already..

07-17-2007, 14:24 PM	#69 (permalink)
bdn12 New Member Join Date: 07-14-07 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 13 Country:	No. But it doesn't matter. No one but the US is getting this plane anyways.

07-17-2007, 22:31 PM	#72 (permalink)
bdn12 New Member Join Date: 07-14-07 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 13 Country:	Sorry. Israel doesn't need it. I think, like Japan, they want it for national pride. This is a plane like the SR-71 and B-2 that won't be exported. If they want to take out Iranian nuke sites, they should just ask the U.S. to do it. If there's a war with Iran, the U.S. will end up being involved anyways because we wouldn't let Israel or even Saudi Arabia (who has bad relations with Iran) fight Iran alone.

07-18-2007, 10:31 AM	#74 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 931 Country:	Honestly I dont think that's enough of a reason for the US to give it to Israel. Giving/selling high-profile weapons that they could ONLY use as an offensive weapon is a good way to inflame the region even more.

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