HistoricalDavid

Do you have specific military examples?

What do you mean by that?

WECIV

As much support as Islamist are getting via China (and their little Pawn North Korea) it makes me feel like this is a Cold War.

W

Jimmy

I'm not disputing you, but I've never heard that before. Got a source?

Dreadnought

Sure do.

F-117A Nighthawk Stealth Fighter Attack Aircraft, USA
The F-117A Nighthawk Stealth Fighter attack aircraft was developed by Lockheed Martin after work on stealth technology, and the predecessor test demonstrator aircraft, Have Blue, was carried out in secret from 1975.

Development of the F-117A began in 1978 and it was first flown in 1981, but it was not until 1988 that its existence was publicly announced. The Nighthawk is the world's first operational stealth aircraft. The first aircraft was delivered in 1982 and the last of the 59 Nighthawks procured by the US Air Force was received in 1990.

"The F-117A aircraft is also known as the Frisbee and the Wobblin' Goblin."The F-117A aircraft is also known as the Frisbee and the Wobblin' Goblin. The mission of the aircraft is to penetrate dense threat environments and attack high-value targets with high accuracy. Nighthawk has been in operational service in Panama, during Operation Desert Storm, in Kosovo, in Afghanistan and during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The F-117 is being replaced in the USAF by the F-22 Raptor. The first 10 of the 55 F-117 aircraft in service were retired in December 2006. The remainder is scheduled to be retired by 2008.

In January 2004, an F-117 successfully released a JDAM (JDAM) 2,000lb bomb for the first time. The integration of JDAM and other precision-guided weapons on the F-117 is coupled with the block II software upgrade and is planned to achieve Initial Operating Capability (IOC) in mid-2006.

The Nighthawk is only used for night-time missions.

DESIGN

The surfaces and edge profiles are optimised to reflect hostile radar into narrow beam signals, directed away from the enemy radar detector. All the doors and opening panels on the aircraft have saw-toothed forward and trailing edges to reflect radar.

The aircraft is mainly constructed of aluminum, with titanium for areas of the engine and exhaust systems. The outer surface of the aircraft is coated with a Radar-Absorbent Material (RAM). The radar cross-section of the F-117 has been estimated at between 10cm² and 100cm².

The F-117A has four elevons on the inboard and outboard trailing edge of the wing. The V-shaped tail, which controls the yaw of the aircraft, acts as a flying tail, which means that the whole surface acts as a control surface. The elevons do not act as flaps to reduce the rate of descent for touchdown, so the landing speed of the F-117A is high, at about 180mph to 190mph, and a drag parachute is used.

"The Nighthawk's surfaces and edge profiles are optimised to reflect hostile radar."COCKPIT

The cockpit has a Kaiser Electronics Head-Up Display (HUD) and the flight deck is equipped with a large video monitor, which displays the infrared imagery from the aircraft's onboard sensors. The cockpit has a full-colour moving map developed by the Harris Corporation. The fly-by-wire system is supplied by BAE Systems Aircraft Controls.

WEAPONS

The aircraft can carry a range of tactical fighter ordnance in the weapons bay, including BLU-109B low-level laser-guided bomb, GBU-10 and GBU-27 laser-guided bomb units, Raytheon AGM-65 Maverick and Raytheon AGM-88 HARM air-to-surface missiles.

SENSORS

For stealth, the F-117A does not rely on radar for navigation or targeting. For navigation and weapon aiming, the aircraft is equipped with a Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) and a Downward-Looking Infrared (DLIR) with laser designator, supplied by Raytheon. The aircraft uses a Honeywell inertial navigation system.

The aircraft has multi-channel pilot static tubes installed in the nose. Multiple ports along the length of the tubes provide differential pressure readings. The flight control computers compare these in order to provide the aircraft's flight data.

FLIGHT MANAGEMENT

Before flight, mission data is downloaded on to the IBM AP-102 mission control computer, which integrates it with the navigation and flight controls to provide a fully automated flight management system.

After take-off, the pilot can hand over flight control to the mission program until within visual range of the mission's first target. The pilot then resumes control of the aircraft for weapon delivery.

"The outer surface of Nighthawk is coated with a Radar-Absorbent Material (RAM)."The aircraft is equipped with an Infrared Acquisition and Designation System (IRADS), which is integrated with the weapon delivery system. The pilot is presented with a view of the target on the head-up display, first from the FLIR and then from the DLIR.

The weapon delivery and impact is recorded on the aircraft's internally mounted video system, which provides real-time damage assessment.

ENGINES

The F-117A is powered by two low-bypass F404-GE-F1D2 turbofan engines from General Electric. The rectangular air intakes on both sides of the fuselage are covered by gratings, which are coated with radar-absorbent material.

The wide and flat structure of the engine exhaust area reduces the infrared and radar detectability of the aft section of the engine. The two large tail fins slant slightly outwards to provide an obstruction to the infrared and radar returns from the engine exhaust area.


Air Force Technology - F-117A Nighthawk - Stealth Fighter Attack Aircraft

__________________
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

Druze

I work in Aerospace. The US arms industry lobbies the government very hard to get Israel these weapons. If Israel doesn't get the weapons it wants then it builds it themselves. Israel has the technological capability to build world class fighters, all it needs is financial partners. The US would much rather sell Israel an F-22 then watch Israel go into a partnership with India or China that builds an aircraft over the next 10-15 years that could rival it.

Also remember, the reason Israel is such an asset to the US over the past 33 years is that Israel conducts tests of these weapons that for the most part the US doesn't get an opportunity to do. The data gathered by Israel during their wars on Soviet weaponry proved priceless to American defense superiority, something that pales the couple billion of dollars Israel gets per year

Catalan

Unfortunately, none that come to mind. The same argument was on other threads on other forums by people much more knowledgeable than me on the subject. Can you provide specific examples of United States technology that Israel had no right to sell, that was sold to China? Examples that can be proven - not the silly Patriot example.

What about the Lavi? Did Israel have the right to sell to China whatever they sold to China so that whatever Chinese fighter which looked like it could become what it became?



There is no more Cold War. Nations should be allowed to export to who they will because it is their right as sovereigns.

__________________
If you enjoy modern military history then join modernwarstudies.net!

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...bees/siggy.png

Jimmy

Maybe I'm missing it, but that doesnt say anywhere that the F-117 was designed to be a fighter.

joey

Its high time Israel ties up with India to develope MCA, We badly a kickass radar Further developement of ELM 2052 (which possibly already on par with APG 81) with GaN modules!

India has a very high quality materials r&d.

Engines...Engines...Engines...Kaveri 2 can be used.

Rest is just good project management design etc.

__________________
www.techenclave.com
I'm very much gentleman :)

Opteron 146 EPAW (Venus SH-E4)||Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe (Rev 1.02 & BIOS 1205)||Twinmos 1Gb Ram (2-3-3-5)||Geforce 6800Ultra (NV40C)||Creative X-FI Platinum||Seagate 7200.10 320GB SATA II (ST3300622AS)||Samsung 40Gb PATA (SP0411N)||Sony CDRW CRX230EE||SONY DVD-ROM DDU1621||Benq 1650||Antec NeoHE 500 Watts||Antec P180 (Custom Modded with Thermaltake Blue LED Smartfan and New Front Panel)||LG Flatron 775FT||Samsung Generic Keyboard||Copperhead

Endangered

Israel may get F-22s if nation at risk

The United States would be inclined to allow the sale of advanced stealth F-22 fighter jets to the Israeli Air Force if the State of Israel's security was in jeopardy, former US Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen told The Jerusalem Post Thursday night.

On a 24-hour visit to Israel, Cohen, who served as defense chief under President Bill Clinton from 1996 until 2000, met on Thursday with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni for talks on the looming Iranian nuclear threat and other regional issues.

Cohen currently heads the Cohen Group, which provides business consulting services and advice on tactical and strategic opportunities around the globe.

The Post reported last week that the Air Force has expressed newfound interest in receiving the F-22 - a US-developed fifth generation stealth fighter jet - and has requested that the Defense Ministry present the request on its behalf to the Pentagon. Defense officials have asked to receive the jet so Israel can retain its military edge in the region in face of American plans to sell smart bombs to Saudi Arabia.

"There is no stronger relationship than with Israel," Cohen said. "There could be circumstances that that level of technology would be released to Israelis."

While Congress and the Pentagon would be hesitant to release classified technology like the F-22 to Israel, "if it came to a question of Israeli security, I am confident they will come to help."

The F-22 has been forbidden for export by the Pentagon.

Cohen arrived in Israel Wednesday night after visiting a number of Gulf states, including Abu Dhabi and Dubai, as well as Jordan. Cohen said that during his talks with leaders in those counties he heard "sentiments" acknowledging that Iran was the greatest threat to stability in the Middle East and no longer Israel. Cohen visited Israel as secretary of defense in 2000.

"They understand that Iran is a threat to them all," he said. "There is a convergence of interest evolving and you can find that Israel is not being seen as the adversary."

With Iran funding Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Hizbullah in Lebanon and Syria, there was a need to focus on the "center" when looking to find the catalyst for instability in the Middle East, Cohen said.

"The prospect of Iran getting nuclear weapons changes the dynamics in the region with great impact for rest of world," he said. "We try to seek ways that the Gulf states can cooperate with the US. They are not yet ready to announce diplomatic relations with Israel but the sentiment is shifting and they understand that Iran is the major threat to them and not Israel."

URI

__________________
Wild Wild Web

Dreadnought

The name alone (F117 Stealth Fighter) suggests it is designed along the fighter line instead of the bomber. Compare the F117 with the B1 and the B2. Those are fundamentally designed bombers where as the shape,size and agility of the F117 suggest a fighter origin. Although we use it as a bomber and it may not be capable as a dogfighter as it is not its intended purpose.

This from the designers of the project.

F-117 Nighthawk

DESCRIPTION:


F-117A Stealth Fighter - Revolutionary Support for a Revolutionary Fighter

The F-117, developed in total secrecy, was the first operational platform to employ what is known today as "stealth." Its startling, unconventional shape clearly signified the arrival of a new era in fighter performance through low-observable technology.

Since then, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company has introduced another revolutionary aspect to the fighter. Through total system performance responsibility (TSPR) for F-117 sustainment, this unprecedented contract provides technical, maintenance and modernization support to the 49th Fighter Wing and its F-117 fleet. This comprehensive support program provides such enhancements as lean manufacturing and repair processes, significantly faster spare parts fulfillment, reduced engineering response times, and technical publications.

If Lockheeds designers called it a fighter then I think its pretty safe to say it's origins come from the fighter line.

You will also notice they operate fom the 49th Fighter Wing instead of the 49th bomber wing.

F-117 Nighthawk

B2
Stationed to 509th Bomber wing Whitman AirForce base.
B-2 Spirit

B1
The B1's operate from multiple Bomber wings

Maxor

The F-117 was called a fighter simply due to the fact that funding for a "bomber" with the payload that can be carried by one would never materialize. Fighters implies that this aircraft was designed with air to air capability in mind and it wasn't in this case. It would have made more sense to designate it A for attack aircraft but since this was misdirection for funding I guess. It also has/had the benieifet of getting fighter community pilots over. For some reason it also appears to use the old pre 1962 designation system yet the aircraft wsn't in existance at that time.... (though maybe early development had started, wierd black developed planes)

Tasman

Good explanation Maxor.

The 'A' designation would have been more appropriate but as you've said the 'F' was probably used for reasons of deception. Fair enought - it was a 'black' program. The 'A' designation would also have been more appropriate for the F-111 which was used exclusively in the attack/strike/bomber role by both the USAF and the RAAF (apart from the EF111A and RF111C versions).

Cheers

__________________
Learn from the past. Prepare for the future.

Jimmy

The F-117 was one of the shining examples of a black program. I've always heard that the "F" designator was for one (or both) of two purposes: funding, and deception in case any words did leak out.

I dont see how the F-117 could've possibly been intended to be a fighter...its too slow, its not maneuverable enough in the "envelope" you'd want to be maneuverable in if you were flying a fighter, and there's no room for a proper air-to-air radar except behind the pilot...NOT the place you want to shoot trons from.

BenRoethig

The nighthawk uses the old Air Force designation system. It designated strategic aircraft as bombers and tactical aircraft as fighters, it didn't matter if their role was to drop bombs or shoot down enemy aircraft. There was an attack designation, but it was used to designate aircraft used for close air support missions. The Navy system, on the other hand did denote the actual role of the aircraft. When the tri-service system came about they combined the best elements of both systems.

__________________
F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

Maxor

You'll notice I pointed out in my post that it appears to use the old designation..... I just can't figure out why since I know it wasn't in service when the switch took place. (though it may have been in early development however planes that entered service earlier used the new designators f-4)