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Reply With QuoteI see, Sir
I'll back to this post 4 or 5 years later
AH64D Apache Longbow
A129 Augusta Mangusta
Mi 28 Havoc
Kamov Ka52 Blackshark varients
Eurocopter Tigre
Rooivalk AH-2As
Hi J`ve
we all know it is a project at the moment, it has already been discussed. Go back 4 posts to see where we are at.
I see, Sir
I'll back to this post 4 or 5 years later
Sn. Ucar lets wait for the upcoming SSIK meeting...I think that, that meeting will settle all our speculation for once and for all :-) I am sure that you are aware how not all projects were "discussed" in the current meeting and that several projects were left for further evaluation. I believe there will also be a great leap forward in a Turkish made heavy-lift helicopter. They will opt for a partnership with Sikorsky and Agusta in my opinion...but it remains to be seen...Originally Posted by Ucar
That's just a list of companies. Where's the test? The data on the new system?
Well, I don't want to write about Turkish army or Russians loss in Afghanistan or even personal info of other members. I think it is not relevant when you answer on very straight question.
So, back to topic - I open wikipedia to find some info.
Here it is:
AH64D Apache-- A129-- Mi 28-- Ka52--
Country= USA -- Italia -- Russia-- Russia--
Crew= 2 -- 2 -- 2 -- 2--
Length=17.73 m -- 12.28 m -- 17 m-- 13.5 m--
Rotor diameter=14.63 m-- 11.9 m-- 17.20 m-- 2x 14.5 m--
Height=3.87 m -- 3.35 m -- 3.82 m-- 5.4 m--
Disc area=168.11m2-- 445 m2 -- 232.4 m2-- 330.3 m2--
Empty weight=5165 kg-- 2530 kg-- 7895 kg -- 7800 kg--
Max weight=9500 kg-- 4600 kg-- 12100 kg-- 12880 kg--
Powerplant=2 x 1490 kW--2 x 664 kW-- 2 x 1640 kW-- 2 x 1760 kW--
Max speed=293 km/h-- 278 km/h-- 305 km/h-- 390 km/h--
Cruise speed=265 km/h-- 229 km/h-- n/a-- 270 km/h--
Combat radius=480 km-- 510 km-- 520 km-- 520 km--
Ferry range=1200 km-- 1000 km-- 1140 km-- 1200 km--
Ceiling = 6400 m-- 4725 m-- 5800 m-- 5500 m--
Rate of climb=12.7 m/s-- 10.2 m/s-- 13.7 m/s-- 10 m/s--
Disc loading=47.9 kg/m2--n/a-- 45 kg/m2-- 30 kg/m2--
Power/Mass=310 W/kg-- n/a-- 310 W/kg-- 330 W/kg--
sorry, I dont know how attach excel file
Last edited by antileader; 16 Dec 07, at 08:15.
I think there is a problem with the disc area values.
The formula for the calculation of the area of a circle is : Pi x Radius x Radius
Therefore, given that the above rotor diametere are correct, the disc areas should be (Pi rounded to 3,14):
Apache : 7.315x7.315x3.14 : 168.02 m2
A129 : 5.95x5.95x3.14 : 111.16 m2
Mi28 : 8.6x8.6x3.14 : 232.23 m2
Ka52 : (7.25x7.25x3.14)x2 : 330.10 m2
The disc area for the A129 is wrong in the above table.
Well,
I agreed - your numbers are right.
Difference just for Italian A129, but I took info here
Yes Glosters, I saw that. It's neat that downed aircrew can use their D rings (I think) on their vests to lock themselves into the ladder of the Apache and sit on the chin or stubs and ride out. I'd bet it'd be a great change of perspective!
The AH-64D is currently the best, and if they hadn't canceled the prodution of the RAH-66 it would be the best.
This thread is cursed . Almost every poster here has been banished .
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
What are the criteria for determining the best attack helicopter?
It seems to me that it has nothing to do with specifications or operability but more with how many were sold or built than anything ells.
If this is true, then the AH-64 Apache wins hands down and we all can go and cry in a corner somewhere.
But if specification and operability and so forth are the criteria then it might be a different story. I suggest a matrics should be drawn-up with all the critical specs on the left and the contenders on top. Then you gather the most reliable (???) info you can lay your hands on and write it down in the centre of your matrics. Now compare...
It is quite obvious then that the Apache no longer has the upper hand. In fact, no single helicopter has the upper hand. But be warned, you'll be surprised at what comes out of the exercise.
Check the Rooivalk and Kamov KA-28. Apache falls short on most (not all) counts. Even the cobra (latest version) seems to be a better buy.
There are some other issues which can not be seen in a matrics. Things like support required, down time, price, weapons ability and flight aids to ease pilot work load. These things are not easy to answer and these are things you simply do not find in the public domain.
So, I come to the conclusion that the question can not really be answered by us. I'm in the military industry. I'm an electronic engineer with 13y's in the weapons industry. I've worked on missiles and helicopters for most of my life and I'm sure that if the US, Frans, Britain and Russia were not using politics and other heavy handed tactics, the issue of sales for some other manufacturers would have been much different.
That's my bit into the pot. Like we say in my language: "put it in your pipe and smoke it" (translated)
God bo alles, my gesin daarna en my volk kort op hulle hakke, dan eers, ek!!!
In terms of attack helicopter I belive AH-64D is the best as the task it is given since it can find cover and jump up fire its fire and forget destroy the SAM and then is free too destroy all the armor on ground as in Ka-50 or Mi-28 are vulnerable too SAM , though in terms of armor and maneuverability the Ka-50 is somewhat better than the Longbow as the Mi-28 I heard has amazing armor including its windshield and the amarment is quite impressive though not fire and forget.
The Rooivalk is known to be a first-rate anti-tank helicopter and in the right war setting would be extremely effective. My one reservation concerns its size, as it was developed from the Puma.
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.
I voted for the Apache, which I give a slight edge over the Mi 28 & KA52. But it was a hard decision, partially because AH-64 did have problems in Kosovo in 1999, 2 AH-64s crashed.
AH-64 in Kosovo (1999)
Apaches Are Ailing Warriors
AH-64 Apache - Military Aircraft
AGM-114 HELLFIRE - Jane's Air Forces News
Don't know if it was said but the standard Hellfires in teh US inventory have a range of 9 kilometers. Someone had said it had too short of a range.
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is to know to not use it in a fruit salad.
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