Osprey

BudW · 03-11-2007, 17:56 PM

What do you think about the Osprey ? is the Osprey a wise choice for the US military?

highsea · 03-11-2007, 18:46 PM

The Osprey is a transformational AC, and as such is somewhat controversial. As long as it is employed properly, there is no problem. That applies to every other piece of equipment the military buys as well.

It's expensive because it's the first of it's kind. As the type evolves, this will change. It has potentials that are not currently being pursued, that will also change over time.

Whether or not it's a "wise" choice depends on your criteria.

glyn · 03-11-2007, 19:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highsea

The Osprey is a transformational AC, and as such is somewhat controversial. As long as it is employed properly, there is no problem. That applies to every other piece of equipment the military buys as well.

It's expensive because it's the first of it's kind. As the type evolves, this will change. It has potentials that are not currently being pursued, that will also change over time.

Whether or not it's a "wise" choice depends on your criteria.

When it came to the UK last year to participate in an air-show, observers remarked that it gave a very restrained display of little more than low speed flight. None of the expected party pieces the bird is allegedly capable of were demonstrated. A retired Wing Commander friend said he was sure the crew had been briefed to act the way they did, as it is usual for a new type to go the whole hog and try to impress the crowd. Not this one. When you consider the abnormally protracted line of development (over decades), through a number of different types, you are left with the impression that it is still in some ways a 'proof of concept' vehicle that has yet to reach maturity. I hope I'm wrong in this assumption, as the USMC C-46s would struggle in Afghanistan with other than a minimum loading due to the pressure altitude conditions.

highsea · 03-11-2007, 19:32 PM

Oh I agree, Glyn- it's no where near a mature type. The concept itself is proven in that there are civilian exec. and Coast Guard SAR versions that are successful.

It has been a long and difficult development- I recall working on the Bell Tiltrotor prototypes in the early 80's.

Whether or not it will be successful as a military combat transport is to be seen. I wonder if Pentagon planners will even be willing to put a $120 Million, "low and slow" flyer in a hot combat zone to begin with.

Another potential use for the type is AEW&C on STOVL carriers and LHD's.

Jimmy · 03-11-2007, 22:24 PM

I think that's where we'll see it mostly serving, too.

TheBigThug · 03-11-2007, 23:12 PM

Sorry, I am a little more preferable to this model...

I have a Close friend that is a Bell Program Manager (Former Marine Cobra pilot) We have debated for hours on its capability (my arguments are always on its lack of)

The Marines are pretty estatic on its capaibility for its reach. I am however dissapointed in its available payload area, and Mission Weight. Forward deploying marines a 1000 Miles during a crisis such as the reach that is afforded from guam sounds great, until they are taking on wounded, Out of ammo and need urgent medivac. Thats one heel of a stretch for a life line for support.

What I believe the MV-22 will be is a test lab for Force projection on a small unit scale.

But in todays age of threat systems. I just dont see how the aircraft is going to penetrate any airsprace when its RCS is Horrid, due to all the curve surfaces, and Rotating Blades. This system has got to be a huge corner reflector! This for me leads to worry to the use of it as a CSAR platform.

I love the technology, and its On paper goals.

Jimmy · 03-11-2007, 23:41 PM

I think the suggestion that the Osprey could be a CSAR platform might be the most ridiculous thing the military's said since Roswell.

Whoever's in charge of medivac/CSAR stuff really needs to get thumped in the head. Between the Marines wanting the Osprey for it, and the AF picking an upgraded CHINOOK, I really have no idea what's going on.

highsea · 03-12-2007, 00:05 AM

I'm not sure a Chinook can't take any more punishment than an Osprey. They're both going down if stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If it's a time-sensitive evacuation (and which ones aren't), Osprey will be on station before Chinook. If it's too late, it's too late for both types. If that 5 or 10 minutes counts, Osprey can give it to you. If it doesn't count, send Chinooks or JDAMs as appropriate.

Long range insertion of anything other than Delta/SEAL teams seems unrealistic, imo. That's why we have LHD's.

Garry · 03-12-2007, 08:08 AM

I am pretty sure that idea for this transport is good - give a fast speed transport which can take off like a helo. This dream was followed by many in the past.... Kamov's Ka-22 was an unsuccesful attemp in this design..... having flown around 100 hours it collapsed and was considered too risky to continue.
Kamov Ka-22 Vintokryl

Somehow I feel that Osprey is a start for the new class which would inevitably prosper.... how about tilt jet design?

JCT · 03-12-2007, 23:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highsea

Whether or not it will be successful as a military combat transport is to be seen. I wonder if Pentagon planners will even be willing to put a $120 Million, "low and slow" flyer in a hot combat zone to begin with.

Look for it in Iraq as I believe the first squadron will deploy there this summer.

gunnut · 03-20-2007, 14:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigThug

Here's a trivia: what is the nose art on this craft?

Garry · 03-21-2007, 14:39 PM

I know this is off the topic but I like this pics of Mi-26 carrying an aircraft... very impressive ha?

**TopHatter** · 03-21-2007, 17:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

Here's a trivia: what is the nose art on this craft?

I recall that it said "Bugstompers" with some kind of cartoon eagle or similar holding a gun.

gunnut · 03-21-2007, 18:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHatter

I recall that it said "Bugstompers" with some kind of cartoon eagle or similar holding a gun.

BINGO!!!

We have a winner.

dalem · 03-21-2007, 21:31 PM

Could be worse.

Anyone interested in concept aircraft/models should check out the rest of Allen's site too. Great stuff.

-dale

03-11-2007, 17:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
BudW Patron Join Date: 02-24-07 Posts: 187	Osprey What do you think about the Osprey ? is the Osprey a wise choice for the US military?

03-11-2007, 18:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
highsea *Defense Professional* Join Date: 12-10-04 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,478	The Osprey is a transformational AC, and as such is somewhat controversial. As long as it is employed properly, there is no problem. That applies to every other piece of equipment the military buys as well. It's expensive because it's the first of it's kind. As the type evolves, this will change. It has potentials that are not currently being pursued, that will also change over time. Whether or not it's a "wise" choice depends on your criteria. __________________ My baby called me up. She said- Why don't you ever take me out? Pick me up in your brand new car....You shake the short change from the old fruit jar...

03-11-2007, 23:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
TheBigThug *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-13-03 Posts: 30	Sorry, I am a little more preferable to this model... I have a Close friend that is a Bell Program Manager (Former Marine Cobra pilot) We have debated for hours on its capability (my arguments are always on its lack of) The Marines are pretty estatic on its capaibility for its reach. I am however dissapointed in its available payload area, and Mission Weight. Forward deploying marines a 1000 Miles during a crisis such as the reach that is afforded from guam sounds great, until they are taking on wounded, Out of ammo and need urgent medivac. Thats one heel of a stretch for a life line for support. What I believe the MV-22 will be is a test lab for Force projection on a small unit scale. But in todays age of threat systems. I just dont see how the aircraft is going to penetrate any airsprace when its RCS is Horrid, due to all the curve surfaces, and Rotating Blades. This system has got to be a huge corner reflector! This for me leads to worry to the use of it as a CSAR platform. I love the technology, and its On paper goals. __________________ "Pork, The Arab Kryptonite"

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03-11-2007, 19:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
highsea *Defense Professional* Join Date: 12-10-04 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,478	Oh I agree, Glyn- it's no where near a mature type. The concept itself is proven in that there are civilian exec. and Coast Guard SAR versions that are successful. It has been a long and difficult development- I recall working on the Bell Tiltrotor prototypes in the early 80's. Whether or not it will be successful as a military combat transport is to be seen. I wonder if Pentagon planners will even be willing to put a $120 Million, "low and slow" flyer in a hot combat zone to begin with. Another potential use for the type is AEW&C on STOVL carriers and LHD's.

03-11-2007, 22:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 931 Country:	I think that's where we'll see it mostly serving, too.

03-11-2007, 23:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 931 Country:	I think the suggestion that the Osprey could be a CSAR platform might be the most ridiculous thing the military's said since Roswell. Whoever's in charge of medivac/CSAR stuff really needs to get thumped in the head. Between the Marines wanting the Osprey for it, and the AF picking an upgraded CHINOOK, I really have no idea what's going on.

03-12-2007, 00:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
highsea *Defense Professional* Join Date: 12-10-04 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,478	I'm not sure a Chinook can't take any more punishment than an Osprey. They're both going down if stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time. If it's a time-sensitive evacuation (and which ones aren't), Osprey will be on station before Chinook. If it's too late, it's too late for both types. If that 5 or 10 minutes counts, Osprey can give it to you. If it doesn't count, send Chinooks or JDAMs as appropriate. Long range insertion of anything other than Delta/SEAL teams seems unrealistic, imo. That's why we have LHD's.

03-21-2007, 21:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
dalem Lord High Hullabalooster *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-23-04 Location: Columbia Heights, MN Posts: 8,325 Country:	Could be worse. Anyone interested in concept aircraft/models should check out the rest of Allen's site too. Great stuff. -dale

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