Thread: Iraqi Air Force Essay Help?

Blackjack,
Potentially interesting story that you might already know and might know more about than I do.
I have seen a tape available on the internet (as well as information regarding) what, according to my understanding, was the first U.S. jet fighter shot down over Iraq during the 1st Gulf War. The American pilot's name was Scott Speicher and a search using his name should suffice to get you going.
I have not been in the Air Force myself, so some of my terms might not be the best that can be used and for all I know there might be items in this account that might be unrealistic.
Following is my unsubstantiated understanding:
Four F/A-18s were on a night bombing run and Speicher was last in formation. An Iraqi pilot in a MiG-25 sneaked up behind him and shot him down and sneaked away without the other three pilots being aware of it. Our government at the time said that he was probably shot down by a SAM but supposedly there were people in the Navy at the time who knew what really happened. Speicher was temporarily a POW. As far as I know he is still alive and I had the impression that he was involved in the creation of the tape/disc that is available. One of the stated advantages of the Iraqi pilot was that nearly all aircraft he could perceive would be enemy whereas nearly all aircraft U.S. pilots could perceive would be friendly.
Personally, I would like to know more about this.
MiG-25 is of particular interest to me. In forums are often debates comparing it to F-15 or whatever. According to my understanding such a comparison is inappropriate because U.S. has never built aircraft (as far as I know) to serve same purpose. I think comparisons could be made with English Electric/BAC Lightning and Me163 rocket plane.
Thanks,
MiGuel

Capt Speicher was never found. He was a navy captain, O-6. Every few years a witness would pop up saying they'd seen him alive in captivity, and I think US forces actually uncovered physical evidence that he survived the shootdown, but they have yet to recover any remains or find evidence that he's still alive.

A place I'd suggest looking would be any books written by Gen Horner, or even Schwartzkopf. Horner in particular. There was an AF colonel, too, but I cant remember his name.

Edit: The F-106 is probably the closest you'll find to a real American counterpart to the Foxbat. That was pretty much our last dedicated interceptor.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

'Sup, Jimmy?

Hey, did you read my thread re: Lt. Bluesman's assignment?

Travis. California, here we come! RNLTD is 31 July.

From Patrick to Travis, huh? That's rough Good time of year to go there, from what I hear.

I'll be here in the dust bowl for a few years, but hopefully overseas will come next (come on, NATO slot...come on, NATO slot).

Edit: No, I seem to have missed the thread and cant find it.

Originally Posted by MiGuel

Blackjack,
Potentially interesting story that you might already know and might know more about than I do.
I have seen a tape available on the internet (as well as information regarding) what, according to my understanding, was the first U.S. jet fighter shot down over Iraq during the 1st Gulf War. The American pilot's name was Scott Speicher and a search using his name should suffice to get you going.
I have not been in the Air Force myself, so some of my terms might not be the best that can be used and for all I know there might be items in this account that might be unrealistic.
Following is my unsubstantiated understanding:
Four F/A-18s were on a night bombing run and Speicher was last in formation. An Iraqi pilot in a MiG-25 sneaked up behind him and shot him down and sneaked away without the other three pilots being aware of it. Our government at the time said that he was probably shot down by a SAM but supposedly there were people in the Navy at the time who knew what really happened. Speicher was temporarily a POW. As far as I know he is still alive and I had the impression that he was involved in the creation of the tape/disc that is available. One of the stated advantages of the Iraqi pilot was that nearly all aircraft he could perceive would be enemy whereas nearly all aircraft U.S. pilots could perceive would be friendly.
Personally, I would like to know more about this.
MiG-25 is of particular interest to me. In forums are often debates comparing it to F-15 or whatever. According to my understanding such a comparison is inappropriate because U.S. has never built aircraft (as far as I know) to serve same purpose. I think comparisons could be made with English Electric/BAC Lightning and Me163 rocket plane.
Thanks,
MiGuel

MiG 25 was built as an response to B-58 Hustler bomber. Since USAF had B-58 that was capable of reaching mach 2 Russians needed a fighter that could intercept B-58, and in order to do so it had to be faster than its target so it was designed to reach mach 3. Same thing goes for MIG-31, it wasn't built to do dogfights it was built to intercept tomahawk missiles. High speeds are needed since Russian territory is huge so in order to be efficient they need to be fast. Both mig 25 and 31 are strategic fighters and they deal with strategic threats, while mig 29 and SU-27 are more tactical solution, especially mig 29, and they are made for dogfights.

I think the speed requirements had less to do with the large amount of territory to cover (since the MiG-25 had pretty short legs) and more to do with the poor radar range of the day. Otherwise, yeah. The Foxbat and Foxhound would be used to intercept B-1s (maybe) and B-52s, and if possible E-3s.

Originally Posted by Jimmy

I think the speed requirements had less to do with the large amount of territory to cover (since the MiG-25 had pretty short legs) and more to do with the poor radar range of the day. Otherwise, yeah. The Foxbat and Foxhound would be used to intercept B-1s (maybe) and B-52s, and if possible E-3s.

Yep, that is true. Since a new tactic to penetrate heavily defended airspace was brought up (using low altitude flights) old Russian hardware was no longer useful. It was designed to engage high altitude flying aircrafts but under a new circumstances it proved to be quite useless. So Foxhound was equipped with phased array radar system and with more economical engines that allowed MiG-31 to stay longer in the operational zones. Also it had a new target, cruise missiles and a new B-1 bomber,both of them have a smaller radar signature and that is the main reason for phased array radar system.
Since B-1 is capable of reaching Mach 2, MIG needed to be faster than that so it is able to reach Mach 3. I'm not really sure how good are radar systems installed on Soviet era aircrafts but if they were poor that fact was compensated with large numbers of MIG aircrafts.

Actually, I think that some types of Russian aircrafts are only good for Russia itself and have little usage in other countries. The Iraqi Air force wasn't properly build from the start and that is the main reason why it had almost no effect in full filling its role during the gulf war. They had obsolete aircrafts and untrained crews, so pretty much they were sitting ducks all the time. Individual successes that they had, can be only attached to the individuals and crews and their ability to improvise and adjust to the real combat situation, not to the actual training.
The history of building Iraqi air force is closely tied to the global politics and wars in the middle east from the 60'es and 70'es. Iraqi-Iranian war was first significant test of Iraqi air force and I suggest you start your research from there.

Thank you, Jimmy, for the information about Scott Speicher; thank you, bluesman, for the interesting detail about Iraqi pilot; thank you both, Jimmy and Versus, for information about MiG-25. I had not paid attention to F-106 before ... yes, seems to be noticeable similarities regarding designated mission, etc.
MiGuel

Hope this is not too late but I sugest this site copyright acig. Good site with info about small conflicts

also if you can get I suggest:
-"Iran-Iraq war in the air" by Tom Cooper and Farzad Bishop (some info about Iraqi airforces but concentrates on war so not covering alter periods)
-"Arab MiG-19 and MiG-21 units in combat" by David Nicolle and Tom Cooper (concentrating on these two planes but info about their service in Iraqi AF)