Are the F 22 and F 35 shielded against EMP

urmomma158 · 01-17-2007, 18:32 PM

I have heard of the new EMP shileding techniqes which are lightweight and affordable and the DoD is looking into the issue and along with congress are confident they can adress the issue but I want to know if the F 22 and F 35 are shielded. I heard the Eurofighter was tested against high levels of EMp and still worked.

Tronic · 01-17-2007, 19:15 PM

are there even EMP weapons out there???

Stan187 · 01-17-2007, 20:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

are there even EMP weapons out there???

umm, nukes

urmomma158 · 01-17-2007, 21:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

are there even EMP weapons out there???

highsea · 01-17-2007, 22:34 PM

they are.

Tronic · 01-18-2007, 00:03 AM

thanks for the links urmomma. Hmm... does laser give off EMP waves?

JCT · 01-18-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

thanks for the links urmomma. Hmm... does laser give off EMP waves?

No. Lasers emit focused light. EMP are radio/radiation waves. Different parts of the electro-magnetic spectrum.

Tronic · 01-18-2007, 16:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCT

No. Lasers emit focused light. EMP are radio/radiation waves. Different parts of the electro-magnetic spectrum.

yeh... thats what I thought... some of the articles in the links talked about laser weapons, so just wanted to double-check...

pdf27 · 01-18-2007, 18:12 PM

EMP shielding is cheap and easy. Seriously, a lightning strike is much harder and more expensive to protect against than EMP, and protecting something against a lightning strike will also protect it against all EMP.
You would be hard pressed to find any military kit that isn't hardened against EMP - it really isn't the threat bad sci-fi would have you believe.

JCT · 01-18-2007, 18:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdf27

EMP shielding is cheap and easy. Seriously, a lightning strike is much harder and more expensive to protect against than EMP, and protecting something against a lightning strike will also protect it against all EMP.
You would be hard pressed to find any military kit that isn't hardened against EMP - it really isn't the threat bad sci-fi would have you believe.

I would disagree with the cheap part. Building hardware to EMP requirements is expensive. Commercial equipment is not EMP hardened (look at the tool that cops use to flash car engines - once hit they are dead and the bad guy coasts to a stop). The project that I work on is lucky that we have an exterior shelter to protect all of our computers, negating the need to harden each computer and allowing us to buy off-the-shelf commercial (COTS) equipment at a much cheaper cost. However, every wire (and there are lots!) and opening in the shelter must be shielded. Every wire has a lightning surge suppressor and every opening has a wire mesh to filter EMF.

urmomma158 · 01-18-2007, 21:11 PM

EMP and lightning protection seem to be similar but EMp ahs more requirements due to shorther pulse width and rise time.

Quote:

The electronics in aircraft are subject to severe EMI associated with aviation, and therefore need robust shielding. So airplanes would be expected to escape severe damage from an EMP attack. Likewise, automobiles enjoy substantial shielding because of the EM hazards they often encounter on the roadways. “The roadways are a pretty ugly environment for electronics,” said Gerke. Moreover, the metal in and on the car could block out some of the EMP.

Pulse Defense - By Patrick Chisholm - Military Information Technology

Even our tanks have NBC protection

Quote:

Features of the M1A1 modernization program include increased armor protection; suspension improvements; and a nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) protection system that increases survivability in a contaminated environment. The M1A1D modification consists of an M1A1 with integrated appliqué computer and a far-target-designation capability.

Army Fact File - Abrams

here's some on EMP protection

Energy Citations Database (ECD) - Energy and Energy-Related Bibliographic Citations
http://www.usace.army.mil/publicatio...m5-690/c-5.pdf
ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE AND
Threat Posed by Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) to U.S. Military Systems and Civil Infrastructure

pdf27 · 01-19-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCT

Commercial equipment is not EMP hardened (look at the tool that cops use to flash car engines - once hit they are dead and the bad guy coasts to a stop).

That'll be a far higher blast than they're ever likely to get from a nuclear-generated EMP though.

Excellent post by someone who has spent rather more time than I care to think about dealing with the effects of nuclear weapons on targets. Well worth a read:
Electronic Effects of Nuclear Initiations.

Archer · 01-19-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdf27

That'll be a far higher blast than they're ever likely to get from a nuclear-generated EMP though.

Excellent post by someone who has spent rather more time than I care to think about dealing with the effects of nuclear weapons on targets. Well worth a read:
Electronic Effects of Nuclear Initiations.

It started affecting the way he thinks, if I may say so. Almost all his story scenarios have the US going around and nuking everyone who looks at it the wrong way. Tom Clancy with infinite nukes.

pdf27 · 01-19-2007, 12:22 PM

Sort of yes, sort of no. The thing is that his stories all flow from a single identified change in history - the attempted coup by Lord Halifax and RAB Butler in summer 1940 - and then follow logically on from there.

With the UK changing sides (itself the biggest weak point of the story) Germany does much better and the US is bogged down in Russia fighting the Germans. With this happening far later than historical, but with nuclear weapons developing exactly as historical, a nuclear end to WW2 becomes very attractive. With that happening (200+ devices on Germany wiping them out as a civilization) the way nuclear weapons are treated in our time line just never develops.

The thing I really do like about it is the way he bends the story to fit how a situation would naturally develop, rather than vice-versa.

Oh, and don't compare him to Tom Clancy. It doesn't go down well, and annoying someone who knows that much about nukes is never a good idea

01-17-2007, 18:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
urmomma158 the real plastic *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 03-05-06 Location: NJ Turnpike Posts: 938 Country:	Are the F 22 and F 35 shielded against EMP I have heard of the new EMP shileding techniqes which are lightweight and affordable and the DoD is looking into the issue and along with congress are confident they can adress the issue but I want to know if the F 22 and F 35 are shielded. I heard the Eurofighter was tested against high levels of EMp and still worked. __________________

01-17-2007, 19:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tronic Navajo Code Talker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-27-04 Location: Patiala, India Posts: 5,361 Country:	are there even EMP weapons out there??? __________________ *Nabha Sparasham Deeptam* *-Touch The Sky With Glory*

01-17-2007, 22:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
highsea *Defense Professional* Join Date: 12-10-04 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,521	they are. __________________ My baby called me up. She said- Why don't you ever take me out? Pick me up in your brand new car....You shake the short change from the old fruit jar...

01-18-2007, 18:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
pdf27 Contributor Join Date: 06-05-06 Location: UK Posts: 538 Country:	EMP shielding is cheap and easy. Seriously, a lightning strike is much harder and more expensive to protect against than EMP, and protecting something against a lightning strike will also protect it against all EMP. You would be hard pressed to find any military kit that isn't hardened against EMP - it really isn't the threat bad sci-fi would have you believe. __________________ Rule 1: Never trust a Frenchman Rule 2: Treat all members of the press as French

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01-18-2007, 00:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tronic Navajo Code Talker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-27-04 Location: Patiala, India Posts: 5,361 Country:	thanks for the links urmomma. Hmm... does laser give off EMP waves?

01-19-2007, 12:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
pdf27 Contributor Join Date: 06-05-06 Location: UK Posts: 538 Country:	Sort of yes, sort of no. The thing is that his stories all flow from a single identified change in history - the attempted coup by Lord Halifax and RAB Butler in summer 1940 - and then follow logically on from there. With the UK changing sides (itself the biggest weak point of the story) Germany does much better and the US is bogged down in Russia fighting the Germans. With this happening far later than historical, but with nuclear weapons developing exactly as historical, a nuclear end to WW2 becomes very attractive. With that happening (200+ devices on Germany wiping them out as a civilization) the way nuclear weapons are treated in our time line just never develops. The thing I really do like about it is the way he bends the story to fit how a situation would naturally develop, rather than vice-versa. Oh, and don't compare him to Tom Clancy. It doesn't go down well, and annoying someone who knows that much about nukes is never a good idea

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