JF-17 Discussion.

**Asad** · 05 Sep 03,, 09:35

As you all probably know by now, the joint Pakistan-China fighter aircraft, the JF-17(PK name)/FC-1(CN name) has flown in public for the first time. This thread has been started to facilitate a meaningful discussion about the fighter.

Role of the JF-17 in the PAF:

1. Serve as the backbone of the PAF for the next 25 years with likely scheduled upgrades at 5 year intervals.

2. Replace the ageing PAF fighter fleet comprising of Chinese F-7Ps (Air Defence), French Mirage IIIs (Multirole) and Chinese A-5Cs (Close Air Support). The JF-17 will take on the following roles: Air defence, CAS, strike/interdiction, maritime patrol and peace time air-patrol.

3. The fighter has been designed with the PAF in mind. It will have all weather, day-night true BVR and ground attack capability including, but not limited to LGBs, GPS guided munitions and stand-off cruise missiles.

4. The avionics and Radar package for the Pakistani version has not been finalised yet but France and Italy seem to be the frontrunners in the race for the delivery those systems.

5. The engine will be a Russian designed RD-93 manufactured under license in China. The engine has a thrust of around 20,000 lbs which translates into a top speed of Mach 1.6. Keeping in view of the relatively low power of the engine, the JF-17 has a decent ferry range of around 2,500 km. Max ceiling: 16,000m.

6. Weapons package has not been finalised yet, but France and South Africa are being considered for the acquisition of such systems. France can provide the MICA IR/EM AAMs, APACHE stand-off missiles, SCALP anti-radiation missiles and LGBs. South Africa can provide its Darter series of AAMs and MUPSOW cruise missiles. The Chinese SD-10 BVRAAM is also being considered. The SD-10 is a derivative of the R-77 Russian BVRAAM and is currently undergoing tests.

7. Pakistan has placed an initial order of 150 fighters. Efforts are being made to ensure that atleast everything but the engine can be manufactured locally. The projected number of these fighters in PAF serivce is 200+ units.

Estimated Unit Cost: $15million.

Role of the FC-1 in PLAAF:

1. Replace some of the PLAAF's huge numbers of J-6 (MiG-19) and J-7 (MiG-21) fighters.

2. Although nothing official has yet been announced, the PLAAF is considering the purchase of 200 of these fighters.

3. The fighters will mainly perform air-defence roles.

4. Will likely use all Chinese weapons.

5. Russian Phazotron Radar is widely expected to equip the Chinese version. Avionics are likely to be Chinese.

6. Same engine as the Pakistani version.

With this the pilot post of this thread comes to an end. Please contribute meaningful replies.

Troung, your input will be appreciated.

-3BSD

**Bill** · 05 Sep 03,, 17:45

Seems like a pretty good little fighter. Not up to the latest US/Western standards, but probably a much higher quality than most Russian/Chinese designs.

It certainly should be a manueverable little devil.

**Asad** · 05 Sep 03,, 17:50

Originally posted by M21Sniper
Seems like a pretty good little fighter. Not up to the latest US/Western standards, but probably a much higher quality than most Russian/Chinese designs.

It certainly should be a manueverable little devil.

Yes, well it is not intended to serve as a frontline, high-tech fighter, but only as a medium tech fighter.

Other fighters such as the Rafale, Mirage 2000-5 and JAS-39 Gripen are being considered.

-3BSD

**Bill** · 05 Sep 03,, 17:55

To be honest, i think the JF-17 is enough, certainly enough for a front line fighter in that region.

Remember, it's the pilot that makes the main difference, not the plane. Fortunately for Pakistan, they have quite good pilots.

These aircraft should serve the PAF well.

**Asad** · 05 Sep 03,, 18:09

Originally posted by M21Sniper
To be honest, i think the JF-17 is enough, certainly enough for a front line fighter in that region.

Remember, it's the pilot that makes the main difference, not the plane. Fortunately for Pakistan, they have quite good pilots.

These aircraft should serve the PAF well.

Agreed, but these days, the skills of the pilot are not enough. Our F-16s are old, they are barely any good for roles other than dropping nukes. If they don't get upgrades anytime soon, they are as good as mere bombtrucks. What we are up against are multiple types of high-tech fighters of the IAF, like the Su-30MK/MKI, Mirage 2000H and the MiG-29. The LCA (Tejas) is on its way too. The JF-17 alone cannot tackle all these fighters. What we need to do is get those Belgian F-16s and give those and our existing Falcons an upgrade, which Uncle Sam agreed to do after refusing new F-16s, and get a high-tech platform in small numbers, like the Dassault Rafale, 40 of those.

-3BSD

**Bill** · 05 Sep 03,, 20:07

Certainly upgrading/expanding your F-16 fleet would greatly increase your capabilities.

The Rafale is probably available, since France is desperate for an export customer.

**Asad** · 06 Sep 03,, 19:55

Well it has almost been confirmed that the JF-17 will have Quadruplex Digital Fly-By-Wire.

Nothing to brag about in this day and age but its good to have in a relatively cheap fighter like the JF-17.

200+ of these little devils will multiply the capabilities of the PAF four times. :D

-3BSD

**Praxus** · 06 Sep 03,, 20:19

Pakistan can't hope to win a war against India. India has more money, more people, and better weapons(In SOME cases). The best thing for Pakistan to do is not start anything with India.

The US shouldn't sell ANYTHING to Pakistan.

But that's just my byist anti-dictator feelings

**Asad** · 06 Sep 03,, 20:38

But that's just my byist anti-dictator feelings

That "dictator" is well liked by the majority of Pakistanis, from the elite to the poor, so who are you to say whats good for Pakistan and whats not? Mind your own damn business.

-3BSD

**Ironduke** · 06 Sep 03,, 20:59

Originally posted by Praxus
Pakistan can't hope to win a war against India. India has more money, more people, and better weapons(In SOME cases). The best thing for Pakistan to do is not start anything with India.

The US shouldn't sell ANYTHING to Pakistan.

But that's just my byist anti-dictator feelings

I think Musharraf is alot better than Nawaz Sharif or Benazir Bhutto, from what I've read. Sharif and Bhutto were corrupt to the bone.

**Praxus** · 06 Sep 03,, 21:26

That "dictator" is well liked by the majority of Pakistanis, from the elite to the poor, so who are you to say whats good for Pakistan and whats not? Mind your own damn business.

If that dictator is liked or not is a none issue. Germans loved Hitler but does that make him a ligitiment leader? The Emporer of Japan was loved as a God but is he a ligitiment leader?

People don't have the right to property in Pakistan, if a person speaks out against him he could take your property with out even proper confensation. You only have the right to protest if your beloved dictator allows it. You don't see too many protests against the Pakistani Government, now do you?

You can love your dictator all you want, but in the end you are still the slave and he is still the master.

**TopHatter** · 06 Sep 03,, 21:37

What does the PAF see as the anti-ship role (if any) of the JF-17? Can the French Apache be used in this role and does France offer the Apache, either as an export version or top of the line?

**Praxus** · 06 Sep 03,, 21:42

N/A

**TopHatter** · 06 Sep 03,, 21:46

I was refering to the French Apache cruise missile

**munir** · 06 Sep 03,, 23:03

Praxus... You rather go with a not exactly democratic elected moron that is warmongering all over the planet then a so called dictator that does everything to make his country better? Since when do you know everything about Pakistan? Listening to one sided propaganda and not adding any value doesn't mean you have an objective view... And talking about slaves and masters... You know who invented these relationship... And you know that in reality it is still the same in most western nations so keep your BS.

This is a topic about FC1 or JF17... Try to stay in that view... If you want to talk about dictators or elected power freaks then start another topic...

And... About living in peace after making war with others... Try to avoid war... You should try to live in peace with others... And that is not achieved by killing others... But hey... Us has killed Indians... Killed their food recources... Why don't you think about the real face of the western democracies?

Originally posted by Praxus
If that dictator is liked or not is a none issue. Germans loved Hitler but does that make him a ligitiment leader? The Emporer of Japan was loved as a God but is he a ligitiment leader?

People don't have the right to property in Pakistan, if a person speaks out against him he could take your property with out even proper confensation. You only have the right to protest if your beloved dictator allows it. You don't see too many protests against the Pakistani Government, now do you?

You can love your dictator all you want, but in the end you are still the slave and he is still the master.