Kamov Ka-50 "Black Shark"???

**GGTharos** · 27 Dec 06, 16:03

I'm not sure where you get this 90% probability crap.

The R-73, or any missile, is typically pretty successful WHEN UNOBSERVED.
However, if it IS observed, it's a sucker for flares, and a number of helis now employ automated missile launch detection and countermeasures systems - the R-73 is old, it' heavy, and it has no place on a heli. The Ka-50 ain't gonna be arming any. IF it gets AAMs, it'll be a similar deal to Apache's (completely unused) stinger stacks.
The Ka-50's purpose is ground attack, as is any helicopters, NOT A2A. That isn't even a secondary role, it's like the last on the combat applications list, in the 'desperate' column.

The Vikhr and Shturm both have air to air modes which allow them to attack low LOS-rate targets, and they will be fairly successful against helis that aren't moving particularely fast (or if they are, then head on or tail on). Hellfire might well fare better in this case due to proportional navigation and guiding to laser reflection instead of riding a beam.

**Gaskin** · 27 Dec 06, 16:36

This one may be stupid but I was wondering whether the laser-guided Shturm/Vikhr' could be guided by helmet-mounted sight, which is used to move the gun. It may be exotic but it would sure as hell a last resort if anything else fails.

Well, maybe not the last, since there's always the ejection seat

**GGTharos** · 27 Dec 06, 17:25

Nope, it cannot. The missile has to ride the beam, and you could 'guide' the beam a whole lot faster than the missile can correct for it if you used a helmet - result: Missile out of beam and no longer guided. In addition, when you first launch the missile, you must have the sights aligned dead ahead so that the missile can capture the beam.

**y_raj** · 27 Dec 06, 19:21

Originally Posted by GGTharos

I'm not sure where you get this 90% probability crap.

The R-73, or any missile, is typically pretty successful WHEN UNOBSERVED.
However, if it IS observed, it's a sucker for flares, and a number of helis now employ automated missile launch detection and countermeasures systems - the R-73 is old, it' heavy, and it has no place on a heli. The Ka-50 ain't gonna be arming any. IF it gets AAMs, it'll be a similar deal to Apache's (completely unused) stinger stacks.
The Ka-50's purpose is ground attack, as is any helicopters, NOT A2A. That isn't even a secondary role, it's like the last on the combat applications list, in the 'desperate' column.

The Vikhr and Shturm both have air to air modes which allow them to attack low LOS-rate targets, and they will be fairly successful against helis that aren't moving particularely fast (or if they are, then head on or tail on). Hellfire might well fare better in this case due to proportional navigation and guiding to laser reflection instead of riding a beam.

what if the missile does not follow a heat signature . I heard that new versions of aim 9 follow a 3-d image of target

**GGTharos** · 27 Dec 06, 19:57

Originally Posted by y_raj

what if the missile does not follow a heat signature . I heard that new versions of aim 9 follow a 3-d image of target

How do you follow any sort of 3D imagine with a planar array?

THE AIM-9X is an *imaging* infra red missile. It can still fall for flares at the right distance (ie. far away) when the flare might look like the aircraft and for some reason the kinematic discrimination model fails, however if one of those is shot as you, you can basically kiss it goodbye if you're in a heli.

**GGTharos** · 31 Dec 06, 20:41

Incidentally, for the most realistic Ka-50 simulator, look at http://lockon.ru :D

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