Thread: Kamov Ka-50 "Black Shark"???

Originally Posted by zraver

Stan.
The Apaches that crashed in Albania near Kosovo were not set up for high altatitude operations. there is a video out there that shows one of them suddenly losing it's lift and dropping straight down luckily it autorotated. The other losts its lift, flipping upside down, and pancaking into the ground kiling the crew. All in all it was a worthwhile deployment and the US learned alot about using helos in thin air that has paid huge dividends in Afghanistan.

The apache is armored agaisnt 23mm machine canon (ZSU-23-4 rounds) but no aircraft can really survive a terminal velocity crash.

The longbow is a targetign system for use with the newest generations of hellfires. It allows a single AH-64D or Kiowa warrior to provide targeting data for an entire group of helos while still behind trees, a building or a hill crest. who can then launch form behind cover themselves and then depart the area with the enemy never having seen them. It is the ultimate ambush system

Yeah I remember seeing that video, that was pretty shocking. I didn't know that the lessons from the Balkans were integrated before Afghanistan, that at least makes me feel somewhat better.

not every mi 24 that was hit by a stinger went down and crashed, most of them got damaged and autorotated, there was one (published) incedent when a granade blew up inside a belly of mi24 it killed every one inside but pilots and chopper safely landed.

when soviets went to afgan in 1979 there were mudjahadines armed with 19 century rifles(before america started helping them) that were almost 6 feet long, and they did shoot thru btr60 armor. so it,s not that unusual that apache got hit with old rifle, shot placment is the key, hit the transmission, or a control arm at the hub(or anything critical part) don't need to shoot it to pieces just one damaged berring or unbalanced part , any chopper would go down

Originally Posted by omon

not every mi 24 that was hit by a stinger went down and crashed, most of them got damaged and autorotated, there was one (published) incedent when a granade blew up inside a belly of mi24 it killed every one inside but pilots and chopper safely landed.

when soviets went to afgan in 1979 there were mudjahadines armed with 19 century rifles(before america started helping them) that were almost 6 feet long, and they did shoot thru btr60 armor. so it,s not that unusual that apache got hit with old rifle, shot placment is the key, hit the transmission, or a control arm at the hub(or anything critical part) don't need to shoot it to pieces just one damaged berring or unbalanced part , any chopper would go down

But its quite a bit more unlikely to hit a moving chopper than a moving BTR, wouldn't you say?

Originally Posted by Stan187

But its quite a bit more unlikely to hit a moving chopper than a moving BTR, wouldn't you say?

Having been brought down myself by a tribesman with a far from modern rifle when I thought I was out of range, I can tell you the natives are crack shots with these heirlooms.

Originally Posted by Stan187

But its quite a bit more unlikely to hit a moving chopper than a moving BTR, wouldn't you say?

it all depends on a distance, chopper position(the best one behind, shoot the tail rotor gearbox if you can hit it),and most importantly skills of the shooter. the blackhawks in mogadishu were shot from no more than 100 yards, while hovering, any long arms would shoot them, may be not as fast as rpg explosion but they most likely would have to crashland. or you might empty the whole mag at it and it wouldn't hit any critical parts then it'll just fly away.
anything is posible. life is stranger than fiction.

Originally Posted by omon

it all depends on a distance, chopper position(the best one behind, shoot the tail rotor gearbox if you can hit it),and most importantly skills of the shooter. the blackhawks in mogadishu were shot from no more than 100 yards, while hovering, any long arms would shoot them, may be not as fast as rpg explosion but they most likely would have to crashland. or you might empty the whole mag at it and it wouldn't hit any critical parts then it'll just fly away.
anything is posible. life is stranger than fiction.

Yeah thats why I mentioned moving. Obviously a hovering helo is not much harder to hit that most other stationary targets. Give me a good rifle and I can bring down a hovering helo from 100 yards away.

Originally Posted by glyn

Having been brought down myself by a tribesman with a far from modern rifle when I thought I was out of range, I can tell you the natives are crack shots with these heirlooms.

Sorry glyn, didn't mean to strike that nerve again.

Originally Posted by omon

not every mi 24 that was hit by a stinger went down and crashed, most of them got damaged and autorotated, there was one (published) incedent when a granade blew up inside a belly of mi24 it killed every one inside but pilots and chopper safely landed.

when soviets went to afgan in 1979 there were mudjahadines armed with 19 century rifles(before america started helping them) that were almost 6 feet long, and they did shoot thru btr60 armor. so it,s not that unusual that apache got hit with old rifle, shot placment is the key, hit the transmission, or a control arm at the hub(or anything critical part) don't need to shoot it to pieces just one damaged berring or unbalanced part , any chopper would go down

Hi Omon! you are quite right. In fact out of 300+ helicopters lost in Afganistan by Soviet army very few were actually brought down by Stingers and many by rifles/machine guns/RPGs.

I remember I was watching Discovery where they stated that STINGERS were the MAJOR ISSUE which brought USSR out of Afganistan however they never stated any statistics.... Around 5.7% of all killed died in aircraft crash and only 300+ helicopters were lost to all reasons (as well as 43 fixed wing aircraft, including 20+ destroyed on the ground). It was nothing for USSR... But Discovery continues spreading thins MYTH

US Army has lost 5000+ helicopters in Vietnam and 8.5% of all KIA died in a helicopter crash.... But and still this was not a reason why they left!!!

Originally Posted by Garry

Hi Omon! you are quite right. In fact out of 300+ helicopters lost in Afganistan by Soviet army very few were actually brought down by Stingers and many by rifles/machine guns/RPGs.

I remember I was watching Discovery where they stated that STINGERS were the MAJOR ISSUE which brought USSR out of Afganistan however they never stated any statistics.... Around 5.7% of all killed died in aircraft crash and only 300+ helicopters were lost to all reasons (as well as 43 fixed wing aircraft, including 20+ destroyed on the ground). It was nothing for USSR... But Discovery continues spreading thins MYTH

US Army has lost 5000+ helicopters in Vietnam and 8.5% of all KIA died in a helicopter crash.... But and still this was not a reason why they left!!!

The reasons for getting in and out of Afghanistan for the Soviets were much the same as the Americans' reasons for getting in and out of Vietnam. Idiot politicians who didn't understand how to properly use the military.

and also very few mi 24 were shotdown in afgan. it were mi 8, mi 6, and mi 4. they took most of the beating, soft skinned transport. later pilots of mi 8 and other soft skiners, used bulletproof vests to line interior of pilot cabin, it,s still done in chechnia.

Originally Posted by omon

and also very few mi 24 were shotdown in afgan. it were mi 8, mi 6, and mi 4. they took most of the beating, soft skinned transport. later pilots of mi 8 and other soft skiners, used bulletproof vests to line interior of pilot cabin, it,s still done in chechnia.

Exactly, plus the transport choppers were better targets of opportunity. Kill em, and you just killed a bunch of Russians. Miss em, and you walk away. The usually were not armed enough to effectively return fire.

If you miss an Hind, its likely to follow that pretty white smoke trail right back to your donkey-mounted MANPADS, and obliterate you.

Originally Posted by Stan187

Exactly, plus the transport choppers were better targets of opportunity. Kill em, and you just killed a bunch of Russians. Miss em, and you walk away. The usually were not armed enough to effectively return fire.

If you miss an Hind, its likely to follow that pretty white smoke trail right back to your donkey-mounted MANPADS, and obliterate you.

If I were them, I would specialize only on transports then