NH90-Thread

[JG73]

I started a new thread for this new heli out of the reason the first ones where delivered to the German 'Bundeswehr' now.
Other aspects about this future standard heli of the 'Luftwaffe','Heer' and 'Marine' of Germany and several other countries can be discussed here.

General things about NH90 @ wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NH90

[JG73]

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publ...my11009491.php
Handover of first NH90s

[Garry]

Originally Posted by JG73

I started a new thread for this new heli out of the reason the first ones where delivered to the German 'Bundeswehr' now.
Other aspects about this future standard heli of the 'Luftwaffe','Heer' and 'Marine' of Germany and several other countries can be discussed here.

General things about NH90 @ wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NH90

Very good bird but pricy....

look:
http://www.airforce.mil.nz/about-us/...helicopter.htm

How much will they cost?
The fleet of eight NH90s will be acquired with a logistics and support package which includes a range of ongoing provisions for spare parts, project costs, training, software, publications support and equipment. The total cost of eight NH90s and the full support and logistics package is $771million.

Look the net price is $63mln... it outperforms good old and cheap Mi-8 with its night and all weather capabilities but at what cost? - around six times!!! (now Mi-8/17 will cost around $10mln from old prices of $5-6mln).

In my view it is more advanced than Mi-8.... and modern... but too pricy!

[JG73]

Are these prices per unit fly away for the Mi or all incl.?
I could imagine that NH90 is much cheaper in maintanance and in case of reliability. So the prices would be levelling over a longer time-distance.
And if you see the 3.2 billion contract which Italy signed for 116 units the all incl. price per unit would only (ok thats also not very cheap) be 27.6 million €.

[JG73]

And in case of the producer-countries there shouldn't be forgotten that a large part of costs flow right back into the own economy. So it's possible that the NH90 solution is possibly cheaper for them then even a Mi-8 solution.

[JBodnar39]

I'd like to know if there is any sepcific delivery schedule for the countries that made big orders (Germany and Italy)

[JG73]

In 2007 there will be delivered 38 units all in all. From 2008 on 80 per year.

[JBodnar39]

Originally Posted by JG73

In 2007 there will be delivered 38 units all in all. From 2008 on 80 per year.

Is that mixed between all of the orders?

[JG73]

Yep. AFAIK the German Bundeswehr will receive 17 units till the end of 2007. How the others are splitted I don't know.

[Garry]

Originally Posted by JG73

Are these prices per unit fly away for the Mi or all incl.?
I could imagine that NH90 is much cheaper in maintanance and in case of reliability. So the prices would be levelling over a longer time-distance.
And if you see the 3.2 billion contract which Italy signed for 116 units the all incl. price per unit would only (ok thats also not very cheap) be 27.6 million €.

Didn't you read the link? It said clearly $771mln for 8 helos including logistics and maintenance. 2/3 of this is acquisition PRICE per unit => 771/8*0.66=$64mln PER UNIT. Hence logistics&Maintenance package is $32mln per unit. If these link really meant US Dollars then price is ABOVE CEELING.

Look how can maintenance of Mi-8 level that? If you can buy a whole new Mi-8 for $10mln its maintenance CAN NOT exceed the cost of a new Mi-8.... hence it is less than $10mln. Conclusion? You may have 6 Mi-8 for the price of one NH90.... if you assume that NH90 maintenance (half of price) is less than Mi-8 (lets ASSUME equal to price) then this comes to 3 Russian helos vs one NH90.

At any standard NH90 comes too expensive..... (assuming they meant USD not New Zealand Dollars)

[omon]

i'd choose 6 mi8 instead, at least a loss of a half won't be as painfull as a loss of 1 nh-90.no doubt this bird is more advanced and much better equiped, but mi 8 isn't that bad.

[SRB]

Originally Posted by omon

i'd choose 6 mi8 instead, at least a loss of a half won't be as painfull as a loss of 1 nh-90.no doubt this bird is more advanced and much better equiped, but mi 8 isn't that bad.

Losing them in air with full human cargo would be very painfull

I also think that nh-90 is too expencive.

[Garry]

In general Russian heavy and super heavy helos (Mi-8/17 and Mi-26) are priced quite attractivelly on price/capabilities. I guess that here Russians have an edge having almost 80% of all heavy helos ever produced. However this segment is quite thin.... only 10% of global helo fleet is heavy and less than 1% super heavy. By value it would make around 22% of estimated funds spend on existing helos fleet.

Russia always had lack of proper medium helos.... seems that its first medium design Ansat (6 acquired by South Korea) comes 60% cheaper than comparable but more advanced western helos (ex. Black Hawk) with the difference in sub features (like air-refuelling, drop tanks, electronic controll, etc) while basic platform specs are quite close. Western helos have absolute dommination with Indians, Russians and Chinese challenging for their share of this market. Somewhat more than 1/3 of global helos fleet is represented by medium helos, while their value share is almost half of all funds spent on helos. This is quite a large segment

Where Russia is really lagging behind is light helos (below 1 tonn load). These helos are really a backbone of mass market where low costs are VERY important. Lights represent half of the global fleet and around 1/3 of value share. Scale is very important for this segment - while in heavy companies are happy to every few unit sold, medium are sold in tens, light are being sold in hundreds....

Hope that was interesting!!!

[Kipruss]

The article was from a NZ website so was in NZ dollars. NZ$771m at the exchange rate of a few months ago would be approx US$500m for the 8 including logistics. Still expensive.

[Garry]

Originally Posted by Kipruss

The article was from a NZ website so was in NZ dollars. NZ$771m at the exchange rate of a few months ago would be approx US$500m for the 8 including logistics. Still expensive.

I felt that it might be NZ dollars but it was not clearly stated.... just $ sign... still $500mln for 8 means 40mln a piece... and maintenance would make $133mln => $16.5mln per unit.... while net price is $23.5mln => twice much as net price of Mi-8/17....

This economics is much better you buy 2.4 Mi-8/17 vs. one NH-90 which is more advanced and modern.... still expensive but feasible.