Semper Fi

I've always wondered this...but what happens if a Pilot crashes a Jet in a non-combat situation, and it's the pilot's fault?

I know an F 18 is worth millions, so wondering what happens to the pilot for destroying such costly equipment? Does he have to pay for a new one?
Does he get demoted? Or just get screamed at?

omon

this is very interesting, i'd like to know that too. i would think he has to fill out tonns of paperworks.
i saw once on military chanel a f 14 was passing by a carrier at supersonic speed low altitude, and caught on fire, pilot ejected. every one on the ship who saw it happened had to fill out some forms,

Ironbar

The pilot, or navigator or flight engineer, or any other crewmember found to have caused a major mishap, would first face a Flight Evaluation Board,(FEB).
Normally convened by the Wing Commander, an O6/O7 ,level decision. Information used in the FEB must be developed seperately from the Safety Investigation into the mishap, as the Safety Investigation is considered as priveledged information.However the findings of the Safety Board may be cited in the FEB, not the participants testimony though. Following the FEB,, said pilot would be removed from flying status, and be reassigned a new AFSC (MOS), if the board found his actions warranted such.
Then the JAG's get involved, they can find the pilot negligent, I think Gross Negligence is what is required to establish pecuinery liability- max I think is something like 30% of base pay for three months- or go the Court Martial Route for Deriliction, or Negilegence in duty or somesuch-
The AirForce went that route with an F15 crewchief in Spangdahlem in 95 or 96. Wrongly installed control cables, after a phase inspection or such. Made an absolute mess of the investigation, poor guy ended up shooting himself the day of the trial.
The Navy, Marine Corps, Army Aviation all follow about the same procedures;

Semper Fi

Thanks for the info Ironbar.

Sorry to hear about the crewchief killing himself. We all make mistakes, but I would imagine a screw up that big has to be haunting especially if it got some killed.

Bluesman

A bit more info on the punchline: the tech order that the crew chief was working from was found to be in error. It is not known if that led directly to his mistake, but it could have.

VERY sad.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Bluesman

Oh, and I know a F-16 pilot that, even after landing safely following an in-flight emergency, he was STILL almost hounded out of the cockpit.

Because when he punched off the wing tanks, he hit the switch to drop the pylons, too.

Cost almost $400,000. They let it go; but he got no love for saving the airplane, which is normally what happens when good airmanship is displayed.

bonehead

Those pilots have no room for errors. They know what they are signing up for when they get the job and I am glad they are there. unfortunatly one has to be sheet upon every now and then to "keep the rest of them in line", but I think it is done more often to glorify some hard arsed brass who is bucking for a promotion.

Ironbar

As a little more on the issue of that F15 crewchief as it might illustrate the point a little better;
Bluesman had a point, if I recall the story, as reported in Lifer/AF Times-it was more of an omission in the TO, and a design flaw that would allow you to cross connect those control cables. The wing at Kadena AB, Okinawa had identified the problem previously, notified higher HQ and all- they created a special 'team' who would actually step in an handle that particular step in the rebuild process. I think another unit ,perhaps Bitburg AB, had done the same-but USAFE, or any other higher HQ's hadn't issued any specific guidence.
A few months prior to this incident two F15's from Spangdahlem had shot down a US Army UH-60 over northern Iraq in a friendly fire incident. Both pilots had been cleared of wrongdoing although their actions seemed questionable, purportatly enraging the then AF Chief of Staff , Gen Fogelmann.
So when this accident occurred someone was going to be held to account.
The actions of the Wing Commander and the JAG, were pretty shady in the course of the investigation and subsiquent court martial; the Wing Commander had alledgely stacked the Court with nonrated, non operational types. Even with that, supposedly the first day of the court went in the defendent's favor, so much so that the JAG pulled the defendent in for 'questioning' the night after Day 1 of court to try to bully him into changing he's plea. Guy went home, sat up all night, got his deer rifle and went out to a deer stand and killed himself.



In general though so much rests on the outcome of the Safety Board's investigation, it is a simple matter to subvert any attempt to prosecute an individual, mostly by casting the causes widely, with out covering up or omitting anything. I know of a Class A mishap, where blame was apportioned so widely in a squadron, that it was really impossible to tell from the report who was to blame- however, afterward the squadron operations officer was reassigned to a dead end job, to wait for his retirement.

TopHatter

Good to see you again Ironbar

Sounds like you were/are a bluesuiter like Bluesman. Can you tell us about your service?

Ironbar

Yep, 20 years for me as well,,, just about worked out to 4 years of Tac Airlift, C-130 's at Yokota AB, in Japan,,and 16 years in Special Operations, 8 years at Clark AB, in the Philippines, and 8 years at Hurlburt Field , Florida. Evaluator Loadmaster when I retired, 6500 flying hours, mostly specialized in Foriegn Security Assistance,, but I got in a little direct action as well. Retired in 99.

Bluesman

Airlift, baby.

Hell yeah.

Jimmy

There was an incident in the mid-90s sometime involving an F-16D, I *think* at Hill AFB. For whatever reason, the crew had to eject. Normally, the guy in back goes first, followed soon after by the pilot. Well, in this incident, the pilot went first. The backseater caught flames from the rocket right up his body and face, and was severely burned...THEN he got ejected. Not a good day. The entire fleet was grounded until they figured out what was wrong. Turns out the seats were basically connected to the ejection controls in the wrong order. A simple mistake like that, but nobody had ever thought of it before, and consequently it wasnt even a documented procedure. Something like 30 or 40 percent of the -D models were hooked up wrong.